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Rellihan
10-18-2005, 07:01 AM
I'm assuming that you have considered buying one of the very nice-sounding
C24R Sierras that have recently been offered?



Of course, if you just can't be happy until you have has the Bo experience
in your life, and you have the money to burn, then "why not". It is widely
held that the "good Bo's" began with the 1969 V35A. The 1969 and later had
fewer airframe and engine issues, and better performance.



Contrary to popular belief, the Bo's went through many, many changes during
their production life, to address a myriad of issues. There are Bonanzas,
and there are Bonanzas. And having said that, if you can be happy with a
straight-tail (Model 33), rather than the V-tail (Model 35), you'll be much
happier with its utility and safety. Any of them worth buying is probably
going to cost you somewhere north of $140,000.







_____

From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of davidweb
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:24 AM
To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [musketeermail] Working and Dreaming



Hey Guys:

Life as an insurance adjuster since Katrina has been all work and very
little play (flying).

I have been dreaming again about buying and owning a V35 Bonanza. I
know the cost to maintain will be alot more than my Musketeer but my
dream will not go away. I guess I am looking for positive comments to
encourage me to follow that dream.

If I do decide to buy the Bonanza, I will be selling my 64 A23.
Problems with engine parts are not an issue with 8796M as I have a
complete 2nd engine with 4 newly OH cylinders.

Comments??

David



_____

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BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

Rellihan
10-18-2005, 04:28 PM
From Steve Robertson on MML:

From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ke4oh
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:51 AM
To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Working and Dreaming

I used to be partners in a 1952 C-model Bonanza. I wish I had bought
it when our partnership split up. As Mike R. said, the line went
through many changes over the years. So, just saying you're looking
for a V-tail doesn't convey enough info to give you specific good
advice. Because of the evolution, my comments below don't all apply
to all models.

The newest ones, V35B, will be quite a chunk of change, as will the
Debonairs (model 33 with the conventional tail). The older V-tails
from the 40s and 50s are the cheapest to buy, but are the most
problematic. Some particular year (1956?), Beech switched from the E-
series Continental engines to the O-470. There is a price jump at
that point due to the "modern" engine.

Here is my take:

Pros:
1. Very fast for the horsepower and fuel burn.
2. Built like a tank. Beech quality and class.
3. Roomy, at least in the front seat.
4. EASIEST to fly plane I've ever been in, and I've flown a lot of
them. Delightful feel on the controls. Never needs rudder.
5. Terrific short field performance.
6. Pretty dang good soft field performance. Robust landing gear.
7. Fairly good engine access with the Ford Model-A style cowl.
8. Reliable retract system.
9. Excellent outside visibility due to the nose-down attitude in
cruise (similar to Musketeer).
10. Many still have electric constant-speed prop. No ADs on the prop
and it works real nice if you have one of the aftermarket electronic
controllers.
11. Big 6-cyl Continental is easy to start (good thing 'cause there's
no primer) and runs smooth.
12. Early models have a real nice pressure carburetor setup that is
sort of like poor-mans fuel injection. No carb heat or carb ice
worries.

Cons:
1. Hopelessly bad instrument panel design. An upgrade to a modern
panel is a big plus. Original "piano key" swithes are desgined
specifically to make it easier to land gear up!!!
2. Magnesium control surfaces. If they haven't been reskinned yet,
they need to be.
3. You will cruise way up in the yellow arc most of the time,
especially on the older ones. Does that make you nervous?
4. V-tail falls off. Or not. Whom do you believe?
5. Weird combination manual wobble pump/fuel tank selector. Use one
hand to pump up fuel pressue, other hand to push starter button,
third hand to work the throttle.
6. Single fuel guage for multiple tanks. Two different switches on
the panel to select which tank the guage is reading. This is just bad.
7. Center of gravity moves to the rear as fuel is burned, just like
Musketeer line. However, Bones are way tail-heavy vs. Musketeer way
nose heavy. It's really easy in a Bone to take off in the envelope
and land tail heavy.
8. Bladder fuel tanks. I don't like 'em.
9. Hard to find some parts for the E-series Continentals.
10. They've ALL been landed gear up! Some more than once. Some many
more times than once.
11. Not really a bad problem, but it's hard to get a V-tail to slow
down enough to lower the gear without going to idle power. Typically
have to make a shallow climb before dropping gear.
12. Need an A&P/IA who knows older Bonanza systems, how to fix them,
and where to get parts. If you have the right A&P, maint costs won't
be any worse than any other complex. If not, you are in for a series
of expensive lessons.
13. Back seat passengers will need strong stomach in all but the
lightest turbulance. Lots of yaw oscillation.

Can't fault your desire to have a Bone. There is no substitute. Just
go into it with your eyes open and one hand on your wallet.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Super III
ex-N5839C 1952 C35

Rellihan
10-18-2005, 04:30 PM
From Bob Lewis on MML:

From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:00 PM
To: davidweb; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Working and Dreaming

Hi Dave, I was also looking at a Bonanza. I joined and
I'm still a member of ABS. I've read every publication
on the Bo and I looked at my flying missions to
determine the logic of going from 700 a year for
insurance to 1800 per year. I have friends with
Bonanzas so I assisted in the annuals and the least
expensive has been 3k and the most 55K, over hauled
engine and prop. I noted that even with the E-225
engine, the 1956 has the least AD's and parts other
than prop components are readily available. The skin
thickness was increased as time went on and some of
the Early Bonanzas require a skin thickness test and
some a 3k rear bulkhead inspection (and if it needs
replaced it is 8k). The stc holder lives in the
midwest and if you don't, you need to fly and pay for
his expenses to come to your area. Each Bonanza has
specific areas of concern. If you decide to purchase
one, ABS has an excellent prepurchase download to use.
I suggest you hire a BEECH BONANZA specific mechanic
with LOTS of experience to help you. I have seen great
looking planes with bad bathtub fittings and
ruddervators with excessive corrosion and too much
paint causing a potential balance problems. Prior to
buying my musketeer, I flew to the LA area to look at
a Bonanza that had been maintained and was being sold
by a Wellll Known Bonanza repair station. I told them
what I was looking for and they assured me this
Bonanza fit my criteria. Within 10 minutes of my
arrival, I found excessive corrosion on the
ruddervators and loose top bearings, a misaligned flap
that would not seat properly and the new engine and
prop were installed using old mounts and the engine
compartment was not even cleaned. The interior has
moisture dripping from the instruments even though it
was advertised as always hangared. I would suggest you
do what I did and attend an ABS clinic and see the
immediate items to look for to help narrow you scope.
If most of your flights are 350 miles or less,
remember, the difference in speed vs cost. The Bonanza
will arrive 15 to 20 minutes sooner for nearly three
times the insurance cost and three plus on the cost
for an annual. Don't forget that the big contenential
engines usually need topped at 500 hours. The cost for
this is nearly the cost of a rebuild on an
0-320/0-360. I paid 10K to overhaul my 0-320 with new
cylinders, cam and accessories. My buddy paid 8K to
top his e-225. Good luck on your decision. What ever
you do, join ABS and speak with their tech guys on any
Bonanza model you focus on. They, like our tech guys
are very knowledgeable and will save you money.-Bob L