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Thread: Musketeer A23-24 question

  1. #1

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    As far as I know, two doors was an option on any year-model A23-24,
    as well as on some (or all?) of the other Musketeer models. I think
    you will find that most A23-24s only have the single door. One door
    is a pain, just like with Bonanzas, Mooneys, Pipers, etc., but it was
    not a show-stopper for me when I went looking for an A23-24. Note
    that a constant-speed prop was also an option on the A23-24. Some
    have it, some don't. Mine is fixed-pitch and I like it just fine,
    especially when I don't have to do any CS prop maintenance!

    Best regards,

    Steve Robertson
    N4732J 1967 A23-24 Super III, serial MA-170

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore" <chrismoore@s...>
    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and from what I've
    read
    > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm looking for. I like
    > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in particular I like
    the
    > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd also like to be able
    > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load of about 700
    lbs.
    >
    > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two doors. Was this
    > changed in a particular year, or was it just an option? I'm
    wondering
    > if I should be looking for particular years if I want to find a 2-
    door
    > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on whether this is the
    > right plane for my mission. I also like the Sundowner and Sierra,
    but
    > I get the impression that they have a lower useful load and a higher
    > price tag.
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    >
    > Chris Moore




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  2. #2

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    Seems like I read that the pilot door was an option
    starting in 1967. By 1968 or 1969, it became a
    standard feature. So most actual Musketeers (and all
    musketeer sports I think) are one-door machines, and
    all sundowners, sierra's, and 'sports' are 2 door
    modles.
    Jay
    --- ke4oh <ke4oh@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > As far as I know, two doors was an option on any
    > year-model A23-24,
    > as well as on some (or all?) of the other Musketeer
    > models. I think
    > you will find that most A23-24s only have the single
    > door. One door
    > is a pain, just like with Bonanzas, Mooneys, Pipers,
    > etc., but it was
    > not a show-stopper for me when I went looking for an
    > A23-24. Note
    > that a constant-speed prop was also an option on the
    > A23-24. Some
    > have it, some don't. Mine is fixed-pitch and I like
    > it just fine,
    > especially when I don't have to do any CS prop
    > maintenance!
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Steve Robertson
    > N4732J 1967 A23-24 Super III, serial MA-170
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore"
    > <chrismoore@s...>
    > wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and
    > from what I've
    > read
    > > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm
    > looking for. I like
    > > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in
    > particular I like
    > the
    > > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd
    > also like to be able
    > > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load
    > of about 700
    > lbs.
    > >
    > > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two
    > doors. Was this
    > > changed in a particular year, or was it just an
    > option? I'm
    > wondering
    > > if I should be looking for particular years if I
    > want to find a 2-
    > door
    > > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on
    > whether this is the
    > > right plane for my mission. I also like the
    > Sundowner and Sierra,
    > but
    > > I get the impression that they have a lower useful
    > load and a higher
    > > price tag.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > >
    > > Chris Moore
    >
    >
    >


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  3. #3

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    For commentary by all, here is my belief, but it could be wrong. If anyone knows of an exception to this outline, please let me know. Once I have all corrections documented, I'll put this on BAC as an FAQ. There is no historical documentation available from Beech that clearly defines this subject.

    - The A23-24 was introduced as a 4-seater having one door, in 1964.

    - A left side door was offered as an option beginning in 1965, but it was infrequently purchased.

    - In 1966, the left side door became standard, for certification reasons, on only the 6-seat versions of the A23-24. It remained optional on all other versions of the Musketeer line.

    - In 1970, the left side door became standard on all versions of the 19/23/24.


    Regarding payload, it can vary widely from plane to plane. With all four seats installed, plus the taxi fuel allowance, and running with six quarts of oil, my 1977 C24R has a legal payload of 986 pounds. If I carry 40 gallons of fuel for trips of three hours plus, I can load 746 pounds in the cabin. The Sierras definitely cost more to buy, cost a bit more to maintain, and can cost a little or a lot more to insure, depending on your retract experience and time in type.

    Personally, I consider the A23-24 to be one of the best-kept secrets of the Musketeer lineup. They can be pocket rockets along the lines of the Piper Archer and Dakota. I suspect that one of the reasons that they haven't yet achieved the same market value as the Pipers, in addition to general unfamiliarity, is that many owners have not taken steps to upgrade the paint, interior, and avionics.

    If you can handle the insurance and costs, get a 1977 or later C-model Sierra (C24R); it has a lot of nice touches, such as a large third door and powered overhead ventilation (on most examples). Usually better avionics, too. If you need to keep the costs down, it would be hard to beat a nice A23-24. Make sure you get one that is already well-maintained, and which has all the avionics you want (including an autopilot for traveling). Otherwise make sure the purchase price is low enough to support any needed upgrades, as they are far more costly to add, versus buying them already in the plane. Already-upgraded airplanes are often better maintained in other respects as well.

    Best of luck! Hope we see you in the Beech Aero Club family soon!


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: James Bruce
    To: ke4oh ; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:20 AM
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Musketeer A23-24 question


    Seems like I read that the pilot door was an option
    starting in 1967. By 1968 or 1969, it became a
    standard feature. So most actual Musketeers (and all
    musketeer sports I think) are one-door machines, and
    all sundowners, sierra's, and 'sports' are 2 door
    modles.
    Jay
    --- ke4oh <ke4oh@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > As far as I know, two doors was an option on any
    > year-model A23-24,
    > as well as on some (or all?) of the other Musketeer
    > models. I think
    > you will find that most A23-24s only have the single
    > door. One door
    > is a pain, just like with Bonanzas, Mooneys, Pipers,
    > etc., but it was
    > not a show-stopper for me when I went looking for an
    > A23-24. Note
    > that a constant-speed prop was also an option on the
    > A23-24. Some
    > have it, some don't. Mine is fixed-pitch and I like
    > it just fine,
    > especially when I don't have to do any CS prop
    > maintenance!
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Steve Robertson
    > N4732J 1967 A23-24 Super III, serial MA-170
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore"
    > <chrismoore@s...>
    > wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and
    > from what I've
    > read
    > > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm
    > looking for. I like
    > > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in
    > particular I like
    > the
    > > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd
    > also like to be able
    > > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load
    > of about 700
    > lbs.
    > >
    > > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two
    > doors. Was this
    > > changed in a particular year, or was it just an
    > option? I'm
    > wondering
    > > if I should be looking for particular years if I
    > want to find a 2-
    > door
    > > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on
    > whether this is the
    > > right plane for my mission. I also like the
    > Sundowner and Sierra,
    > but
    > > I get the impression that they have a lower useful
    > load and a higher
    > > price tag.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > >
    > > Chris Moore

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  4. #4

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    I have a 1972 Sierra MC-96 which was manufactured in the summer of
    1971 it has one door and I think one of the last produced that way.

    Bob Palamara
    9707L

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    wrote:
    > For commentary by all, here is my belief, but it could be wrong.
    If anyone knows of an exception to this outline, please let me know.
    Once I have all corrections documented, I'll put this on BAC as an
    FAQ. There is no historical documentation available from Beech that
    clearly defines this subject.
    >
    > - The A23-24 was introduced as a 4-seater having one door, in 1964.
    >
    > - A left side door was offered as an option beginning in 1965, but
    it was infrequently purchased.
    >
    > - In 1966, the left side door became standard, for certification
    reasons, on only the 6-seat versions of the A23-24. It remained
    optional on all other versions of the Musketeer line.
    >
    > - In 1970, the left side door became standard on all versions of
    the 19/23/24.
    >
    >
    > Regarding payload, it can vary widely from plane to plane. With
    all four seats installed, plus the taxi fuel allowance, and running
    with six quarts of oil, my 1977 C24R has a legal payload of 986
    pounds. If I carry 40 gallons of fuel for trips of three hours plus,
    I can load 746 pounds in the cabin. The Sierras definitely cost more
    to buy, cost a bit more to maintain, and can cost a little or a lot
    more to insure, depending on your retract experience and time in type.
    >
    > Personally, I consider the A23-24 to be one of the best-kept
    secrets of the Musketeer lineup. They can be pocket rockets along
    the lines of the Piper Archer and Dakota. I suspect that one of the
    reasons that they haven't yet achieved the same market value as the
    Pipers, in addition to general unfamiliarity, is that many owners
    have not taken steps to upgrade the paint, interior, and avionics.
    >
    > If you can handle the insurance and costs, get a 1977 or later C-
    model Sierra (C24R); it has a lot of nice touches, such as a large
    third door and powered overhead ventilation (on most examples).
    Usually better avionics, too. If you need to keep the costs down, it
    would be hard to beat a nice A23-24. Make sure you get one that is
    already well-maintained, and which has all the avionics you want
    (including an autopilot for traveling). Otherwise make sure the
    purchase price is low enough to support any needed upgrades, as they
    are far more costly to add, versus buying them already in the plane.
    Already-upgraded airplanes are often better maintained in other
    respects as well.
    >
    > Best of luck! Hope we see you in the Beech Aero Club family soon!
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: James Bruce
    > To: ke4oh ; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:20 AM
    > Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Musketeer A23-24 question
    >
    >
    > Seems like I read that the pilot door was an option
    > starting in 1967. By 1968 or 1969, it became a
    > standard feature. So most actual Musketeers (and all
    > musketeer sports I think) are one-door machines, and
    > all sundowners, sierra's, and 'sports' are 2 door
    > modles.
    > Jay
    > --- ke4oh <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    >
    > > As far as I know, two doors was an option on any
    > > year-model A23-24,
    > > as well as on some (or all?) of the other Musketeer
    > > models. I think
    > > you will find that most A23-24s only have the single
    > > door. One door
    > > is a pain, just like with Bonanzas, Mooneys, Pipers,
    > > etc., but it was
    > > not a show-stopper for me when I went looking for an
    > > A23-24. Note
    > > that a constant-speed prop was also an option on the
    > > A23-24. Some
    > > have it, some don't. Mine is fixed-pitch and I like
    > > it just fine,
    > > especially when I don't have to do any CS prop
    > > maintenance!
    > >
    > > Best regards,
    > >
    > > Steve Robertson
    > > N4732J 1967 A23-24 Super III, serial MA-170
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore"
    > > <chrismoore@s...>
    > > wrote:
    > > > Hi,
    > > >
    > > > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and
    > > from what I've
    > > read
    > > > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm
    > > looking for. I like
    > > > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in
    > > particular I like
    > > the
    > > > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd
    > > also like to be able
    > > > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load
    > > of about 700
    > > lbs.
    > > >
    > > > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two
    > > doors. Was this
    > > > changed in a particular year, or was it just an
    > > option? I'm
    > > wondering
    > > > if I should be looking for particular years if I
    > > want to find a 2-
    > > door
    > > > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on
    > > whether this is the
    > > > right plane for my mission. I also like the
    > > Sundowner and Sierra,
    > > but
    > > > I get the impression that they have a lower useful
    > > load and a higher
    > > > price tag.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks for any help.
    > > >
    > > > Chris Moore
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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  5. #5

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    Hi Chris and everyone else:

    I've decided to sell my Super III. It is a 1967, serial MA-235, reg
    N29JR. I was going to keep it through the winter, but maybe now
    would be the right time, since there seems to be some interest in
    this model.

    Mine only has one door, though. It has a useful load of 1031, and
    the engine has just over 1000 hours on it.

    Anyone seriously interested can contact me and I'll supply you with
    the details. I plan to put up an info page on AOL, but it's going to
    be at least a week before I can get to it.

    I'm looking for $45,000 for the plane. It will be available in mid-
    late October (I have a few more flights scheduled).

    Phil Kriley

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore" <chrismoore@s...>
    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and from what I've
    read
    > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm looking for. I like
    > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in particular I like
    the
    > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd also like to be able
    > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load of about 700
    lbs.
    >
    > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two doors. Was this
    > changed in a particular year, or was it just an option? I'm
    wondering
    > if I should be looking for particular years if I want to find a 2-
    door
    > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on whether this is the
    > right plane for my mission. I also like the Sundowner and Sierra,
    but
    > I get the impression that they have a lower useful load and a higher
    > price tag.
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    >
    > Chris Moore




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  6. #6

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    I have a 1966 version with 6 seats, one door.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mike Rellihan
    To: ke4oh ; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com ; James Bruce ; BAC Mail
    Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:01 PM
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Musketeer A23-24 question


    For commentary by all, here is my belief, but it could be wrong. If anyone knows of an exception to this outline, please let me know. Once I have all corrections documented, I'll put this on BAC as an FAQ. There is no historical documentation available from Beech that clearly defines this subject.

    - The A23-24 was introduced as a 4-seater having one door, in 1964.

    - A left side door was offered as an option beginning in 1965, but it was infrequently purchased.

    - In 1966, the left side door became standard, for certification reasons, on only the 6-seat versions of the A23-24. It remained optional on all other versions of the Musketeer line.

    - In 1970, the left side door became standard on all versions of the 19/23/24.


    Regarding payload, it can vary widely from plane to plane. With all four seats installed, plus the taxi fuel allowance, and running with six quarts of oil, my 1977 C24R has a legal payload of 986 pounds. If I carry 40 gallons of fuel for trips of three hours plus, I can load 746 pounds in the cabin. The Sierras definitely cost more to buy, cost a bit more to maintain, and can cost a little or a lot more to insure, depending on your retract experience and time in type.

    Personally, I consider the A23-24 to be one of the best-kept secrets of the Musketeer lineup. They can be pocket rockets along the lines of the Piper Archer and Dakota. I suspect that one of the reasons that they haven't yet achieved the same market value as the Pipers, in addition to general unfamiliarity, is that many owners have not taken steps to upgrade the paint, interior, and avionics.

    If you can handle the insurance and costs, get a 1977 or later C-model Sierra (C24R); it has a lot of nice touches, such as a large third door and powered overhead ventilation (on most examples). Usually better avionics, too. If you need to keep the costs down, it would be hard to beat a nice A23-24. Make sure you get one that is already well-maintained, and which has all the avionics you want (including an autopilot for traveling). Otherwise make sure the purchase price is low enough to support any needed upgrades, as they are far more costly to add, versus buying them already in the plane. Already-upgraded airplanes are often better maintained in other respects as well.

    Best of luck! Hope we see you in the Beech Aero Club family soon!


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: James Bruce
    To: ke4oh ; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:20 AM
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Musketeer A23-24 question


    Seems like I read that the pilot door was an option
    starting in 1967. By 1968 or 1969, it became a
    standard feature. So most actual Musketeers (and all
    musketeer sports I think) are one-door machines, and
    all sundowners, sierra's, and 'sports' are 2 door
    modles.
    Jay
    --- ke4oh <ke4oh@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > As far as I know, two doors was an option on any
    > year-model A23-24,
    > as well as on some (or all?) of the other Musketeer
    > models. I think
    > you will find that most A23-24s only have the single
    > door. One door
    > is a pain, just like with Bonanzas, Mooneys, Pipers,
    > etc., but it was
    > not a show-stopper for me when I went looking for an
    > A23-24. Note
    > that a constant-speed prop was also an option on the
    > A23-24. Some
    > have it, some don't. Mine is fixed-pitch and I like
    > it just fine,
    > especially when I don't have to do any CS prop
    > maintenance!
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Steve Robertson
    > N4732J 1967 A23-24 Super III, serial MA-170
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Moore"
    > <chrismoore@s...>
    > wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I've been shopping around for my first plane, and
    > from what I've
    > read
    > > the A23-24 Super III seems to be just what I'm
    > looking for. I like
    > > what I've heard about the Musketeer family - in
    > particular I like
    > the
    > > wide, comfortable cabin and the two doors. I'd
    > also like to be able
    > > to carry my family and some luggage - a total load
    > of about 700
    > lbs.
    > >
    > > I've noticed that not all of the A23-24's have two
    > doors. Was this
    > > changed in a particular year, or was it just an
    > option? I'm
    > wondering
    > > if I should be looking for particular years if I
    > want to find a 2-
    > door
    > > model. Also, I'd welcome any other comments on
    > whether this is the
    > > right plane for my mission. I also like the
    > Sundowner and Sierra,
    > but
    > > I get the impression that they have a lower useful
    > load and a higher
    > > price tag.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > >
    > > Chris Moore

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  7. #7

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    wrote:
    > my
    1977 C24R has a legal payload of 986 pounds

    Have seen A23-24s at~1150 lbs
    Have seen 2 door B23s..

    jon








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  8. #8

    Musketeer A23-24 question

    Have seen 63s with 160 horse, at 'bout 950lbs useful load..

    A23-24s, have 40 horse more..

    Every bird different..

    jon

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hagans" <mhagans@e...> wrote:
    > Wow - 1150 useful on an a23-24!!!
    >
    > My '68 Super3 has a legal useful load of 978# - leaving ~618#
    payload with
    > full fuel.
    >
    > And that's with a lightweight starter, no ADF and relatively modern
    > avionics.
    >
    > How do you get an extra 200# of payload? I'm ready to jump at the
    > opportunity!
    >
    > Best,
    >
    > Mike Hagans
    > A23-24 (MA-297)
    > Based 5C1 (Boerne, TX)
    > Temporarily based BTR
    >
    >
    >
    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    >
    > Message: 11
    > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:58:16 -0000
    > From: "jon simik" <bigbajon@a...>
    > Subject: Re: Musketeer A23-24 question
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    > wrote:
    > > my
    > 1977 C24R has a legal payload of 986 pounds
    >
    > Have seen A23-24s at~1150 lbs
    > Have seen 2 door B23s..
    >
    > jon







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