On Wed Nov 30 8:47 , "Mike Rellihan" sent:
I also suspect that the firm landings many people tend to experience on the
19/23/24 airframes are the direct result of hardened hockey pucks for cushions.

---
Gotta tell ya - those new doughnuts make any contact with the ground (well,
takeoffs, landings, and taxiing - NOT hitting a cattle guard at 50MPH) more like
a Cadillac instead of the 'go-cart' I USED to be flying.

---
Kerry is on the money, about not dragging these planes in fast, with power, on a
flat approach.

---
A long straight=in, like on an ILS means coming over the numbers flat - I get a
nosewheel flop like on an Arrow every time!

BUT, try a power-off close-in approach - cut the throttle at the numbers - going
to full flaps as soon as you have the runway made (NOT too early, though) and fly
down at 80MPH (ok - 66Kts) - curve it right around to the numbers - and you will
make the best touchdown of all - nose high and 'churp' - you'll have to add power
to taxi to the first turnoff! SWEET!

Uh - 182 doesn't like this approach as well, but - really, MOST airplanes were
built to do it this way! Who came up with that square pattern, anyway?

Bill Howard
BeechSportBill
N1927W 1973 Sport 150
Beech Aero Club NorthWest Region Director

On Wed Nov 30 8:47 , "Mike Rellihan" sent:

>Not to sound like a broken record on the issue, but I also suspect that the
>firm landings many people tend to experience on the 19/23/24 airframes are
>the direct result of hardened hockey pucks for cushions, which do nothing to
>absorb landing shock. The tires and wings do all the work, and only the
>tires can do much cushioning at all (despite our nice wide gear, great in
>crosswinds). I would be interested to hear reports for those who have
>recently replaced their gear cushions, on the effect new disks have had on
>their touchdowns. A large majority of the 19/23/24 airframes still have
>their original gear cushions, which are virtually all hardened and cracked
>by now.
>
>
>
>Kerry is on the money, about not dragging these planes in fast, with power,
>on a flat approach. Unless you are virtually behind the power curve, which
>means very slow, very nose high, and significant power on (which is scary to
>many people), a flat approach will make you skip like a rock when you first
>touch down. As has often been said, about the third bounce will get your
>prop. It can be landed on the second touchdown, if you were ready and
>handle it right, but the safest course of action after a bounce is an
>immediate go-around. In these planes, a hand on the throttle during each
>landing is a wise readiness precaution; usually a good precaution in any
>plane, but I see a lot of two-handed touchdowns (usually with a death
>grip!).
>
>
>
>I was surprised by the wind commentary in the original note in this string.
>I have not flown the 19, but I have always found the 23/24 airframes to
>handle wind (crosswind or otherwise) far better than the equivalent Cessnas
>and Pipers. In almost all cases, skids following touchdown are the result
>of landing with side drift, and/or not retracting the flaps immediately upon
>touchdown, prior to any braking. Any flaps at all, at near touchdown
>speeds, will cause wheel lock with any significant braking pressure. On the
>retract (24), flap retraction should pose no risk of inadvertent gear
>retraction. Many of the planes have manual flaps (which I prefer). Those
>with electric flaps conform to standard layout, with the controls well
>separated. The gear safety switch also prevents retraction below about 60
>MPH indicated. Though I would not relay on that, in case some jerk has
>bypassed it rather than replace it, following a failure. It is supposed to
>be tested during every Annual, as the retraction on jacks can't be
>accomplished unless the switch is activated by air pressure. That's a clue,
>if your Sierra gear can be retracted while on jacks, without gently blowing
>air into the Pitot tube..
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
[musketeermail@yahoogroups.com','','','')">musketee rmail@yahoogroups.com]
>On Behalf Of Kerry Muller
>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:33 AM
>To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [musketeermail] Re: First Flight in Mouse
>
>
>
>Shannon,
>
>I've had my Sundowner almost a year and was flying a rental pa28-181
>before that. Bottom line for me... the pa28 was always very easy to
>land. The Sundowner took me longer to get consistently good
>landings. It wasn't any one thing - but a combination of a few
>things I had to sort out. Like everyone says - speed control..
>70knots on final, 60-65 over the fence. Also, my experience is it
>does not like to be dragged in with a shallow approach... slightly
>steeper and carrying a little power right to the threshold, 2 or 3
>notches of flaps. If you can get the stall horn to chirp just
>before it settles you know you've nailed it.
>
>Kerry
>6629R
>
>--- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "a1_sonse"
>wrote:
>>
>> Guy's
>>
>> To Clear a few things up, the BE-23 I was flying is a 1963 with
>the
>> 160hp lycoming. My first landing (on the grass strip I did a go
>> around due to flairing early). After that lesson the landings
>> improved. Crossed over runway at about 80mph indicated & landings
>> were good. But, it seemed fast compaired to a pa28-181 with full
>> flaps on the same landing strip (what I usually fly). Skid
>happened
>> on a paved runway & in hindsight I may have hit the brake a little
>> at touchdown to keep it straight. The initial touchdown, with no
>> flaps, was good.
>> The reason for flying this aircraft was to see if the type was one
>I
>> may want to consider purchaseing, & it was the only one I could
>find
>> for rent. I think a Super 3 or Sundowner would be more to my
>likeing
>> if I could find one I could afford. As I said I liked the way it
>> flew otherwise.
>>
>>
>> Just more Info.
>>
>> Shannon Evans
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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