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Thread: AEC Donuts - From the Horse's Mouth

  1. #1

    AEC Donuts - From the Horse's Mouth

    When I visit the AEC Website and look at the shock discs (donuts) it
    says:

    "OEM equivalent p/n 169-380003-7 ($674.26/set OEM published price).
    Replaces Raytheon/Beech p/n 169-380003-7.
    Eight pieces needed to make a set per landing gear.
    Price per set ($45.00 each x 8 = $360 per set).
    Fits all three fixed-gear legs, and the nose gear on the model 24
    retracts"

    Are these the donuts I need for my B23?

    David Snodgrass
    BAC East Central Regional Director
    Beech Be23 N6083N
    North Manchester, IN
    -----Original Message-----
    From: bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org
    [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org] On Behalf Of cloyd vanhook
    Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:51 PM
    To: BAC Mail
    Subject: [BAC-Mail] AEC Donuts - From the Horse's Mouth

    I spoke just now with Kamran Rouhani, the head of AEC. I had e-mailed
    him and asked him if he would confirm that he has an offer to sell his
    entire inventory of donuts to a vendor who would in turn sell them at
    10-15% less than Beech's price. If so I'd like to let our BAC members
    know.

    He said that he does have such an offer. In fact he may have more
    than one. I also asked him how many sets he'd ordered and how many he'd
    sold.

    He said his initial order was for 350 sets. [A set is eight discs,
    enough for one gear leg. Each plane uses three sets.] He said he has
    only sold about 27 sets so far and his break even point is somewhere
    around 150 sets.

    I thought the vendor might be trying to buy the donuts at a discount
    from his price. But they have offered him the price he's selling them
    for on his website. http://www.aec-inc.com/ The vendor would make his
    profit by marking them up to just under Beech's price.

    Kamran said he does not want to sell the whole inventory to another
    vendor. He'd prefer to help us. But we need to help him.

    Guys and gals this ain't about charity. If you want or need donuts
    and you don't want to pay at or near Beech's price you'd best step up
    while they're available.

    Some have asked why doesn't BAC buy the donuts. Do the math. 300
    sets @ $360 per set = $108K. That's about five times BAC's annual
    revenue.

    Cloyd Van Hook
    President, BAC


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  2. #2
    What a difference 12 years can make..... :/

    Shock Disc ( 8 )

    FAA-PMA approved mounting pad assembly (shock disc).
    OEM equivalent P/N 169-380003-7.
    Replaces Raytheon/Beech P/N 169-380003-7.
    Eight pieces needed to make a set per landing gear.
    Price per set.
    Fits all three fixed-gear legs, and the nose gear on the model 24 retracts.

    In Stock: Yes Weight: 4.25 Price: $740.00

  3. #3
    Unfortunately, it is not only the price that has changed in that time.
    Kamran’s attitude to the customer has crashed, in the opposite direction to the price!
    Mark
    In Oz


    Where I have landed a Beech

    (Plus, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom)

  4. #4
    Kamrahn is also notorious for high shipping charges. Still...cheaper than ordering Beechcraft parts.
    Mike Nielsen
    McCook, NE
    Sierra N9164S

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by niechiro View Post
    Kamrahn is also notorious for high shipping charges. Still...cheaper than ordering Beechcraft parts.
    I foolishly paid $300 for next day shipping that arrived 2 weeks later and this Kamrahn guy literally didn't give 2 shits(excuse my language) about me spending so much and not getting the parts in the time frame that I more than over paid for.
    Kevin

    N6283G

  6. #6
    Cloyd's post is from 2006, the bad batch year. Kam had to replace that stock, well actually added to it and tried to ship the bad stock to us later, but I digress. If he bought 350 sets, I wonder how many are left? I seriously doubt he will replen stock, therefore when he's out we are bac to Textron/Lord. I've personally installed about 60+ gear legs, the tools were rented 30 times in 2017, another 90 gear legs. Gotta be getting slim over at AEC.

    Rap

    Rap McBurney
    N8786

  7. #7
    Please forgive my ignorance. But...why isn't there some form of modification / replacement of the whole assembly to a non-donut, beech-stock style landing gear? Doing this every 10 years, while all the other airplanes out there have springs or bungee cords seems like an oversight? I understand it is a certified airplane but can't "we" as the voice of Musketeers get Beechcraft to come up with a solution that would cost 1-2x a set of new donuts but then be somewhat maintenance free? (Or at least, replaceable with cheaper, in-stock at O'Reilly / Autozone / motorcycle shock-absorber parts) ?

  8. #8
    Phil, What you are talking about is at the heart of issues with the FAA and general aviation. It costs so much with development of a different system and then the testing required to prove it. I am sure Beech is not interested in spending more big bucks on our small fleet. Just my 2 cents.
    Mike Nielsen
    McCook, NE
    Sierra N9164S

  9. #9
    Phil, it's a great question with many real answers but I only have opinions. I've probably done more donut replacements than anyone, about 60 so far. The shock cushion is a good system, currently in use on the mouse series, mooney, and cirrus, probably others IIRC. Due to the design of the trailing link gear system, about the only thing that works is the donut or a shock absorber (Duchess and AC 112/114). The shock absorber may last longer, but I suspect the price of replacement would be extreme. As for Textron developing a fix or replacement, there's really no need for that, all they have to do is come off the riduculous pricing north of $2k per gear leg. At 3-500 per leg we wouldn't have this conversation. Textron is Cessna centric, they do not appear to care about the beech piston line with the exception of the G36 and G58. They would like to see the musketeer line and the 2,000 surviving airframes disappear. No, they won't donate or sell the TC, I asked the VP of Beech operations when I was prez of BAC.

    I have investigated springs, inserted inside the landing gear tube, but couldn't figure out a dampening system. It would have to be a coil spring/shock absorber combo to work. The best shot I had was with a polyurethane disc, it fit based upon size and could easily be manufactured with the proper durometer to duplicate current discs, about $11 each IIRC. Any solution other than the current donuts available will require at minimum a field approval or STC. Looking at the market, if every mouse owner changed his donuts to the "solution" in the next 10 years the market would be 200 airframes a year, not much of a market for an STC. Especially given that many owners don't do donuts ever.

    The solution for the forseeable future is to change donuts now if yours are older than a decade (this thread proves they don't get cheaper), and take the weight off them when not flying.

    Rap

    Rap McBurney
    N8786

  10. #10
    Just my $0.02.....I am in the middle of restoring a 1966 Sport and looking for replacement discs. I had attempted to have a civil conversation with Kamran about a year ago and decided, he wasn't worth my money.....I know the Mooney's use Lord Corp p/n J-11968-14 and noticed in the IPC, it calls out the Lord Corp part number for the Sierra (p/n J-11968-10). So, I contacted Lord to get the dimensions and any tech data to compare to the Musketeer/Sundowner., and mentioned I could not find the -10s anywhere. Lord replied that Herber Aircraft is a distributor for the -10 (Sierra discs). I contacted Herber and they are selling them at $101.10 each. Now, I just need to confirm with Beech the Sierra discs can be interchangeable.

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