Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

  1. #1

    Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

    We have withdrawn our Sierra from the marketplace. My partner decided to try it on his most common business trip from 57AZ (North of Tucson) to Tallahassee (TLH). Although not impressed with the speed (ex-jet jock), he was getting ~140 KTAS @ 8.5 gph. However, he was impressed with the range and economy. Only one fuel stop was required on the Eastbound leg (more bladder capacity than me!). His "other" airplane is a leased A-36 with 300 hp. Nice, and fully equipped with lots of neat stuff in the panel. However, with only 74 gallons of fuel onboard, the thirsty Bonner requires two stops Eastbound to get to TLH. Making about 2 hours difference in total trip time in favor of the A-36, but saving over $300 in total fuel cost for the Sierra. As neither airplane is fast enough to allow any business to be done in TLH after the Eastbound leg (not counting 0:darkthirty departures), it doesn't make sense to use the A-36 just to save less than an hour enroute time on the
    Eastbound leg.

    Please don't let anyone in the American Bonanza Society hear that our Sierra beat out a soupped-up A-36 as a business tool. I'm not sure their egos could take it.

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.


    ---------------------------------
    You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    ------------------------------------

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  2. #2
    Guest
    Guest

    Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

    I wont tell

    Al Todd


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Martin Vanover
    To: Musketeer Group
    Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:42 PM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36


    We have withdrawn our Sierra from the marketplace. My partner decided to try it on his most common business trip from 57AZ (North of Tucson) to Tallahassee (TLH). Although not impressed with the speed (ex-jet jock), he was getting ~140 KTAS @ 8.5 gph. However, he was impressed with the range and economy. Only one fuel stop was required on the Eastbound leg (more bladder capacity than me!). His "other" airplane is a leased A-36 with 300 hp. Nice, and fully equipped with lots of neat stuff in the panel. However, with only 74 gallons of fuel onboard, the thirsty Bonner requires two stops Eastbound to get to TLH. Making about 2 hours difference in total trip time in favor of the A-36, but saving over $300 in total fuel cost for the Sierra. As neither airplane is fast enough to allow any business to be done in TLH after the Eastbound leg (not counting 0:darkthirty departures), it doesn't make sense to use the A-36 just to save less than an hour enroute time on the
    Eastbound leg.

    Please don't let anyone in the American Bonanza Society hear that our Sierra beat out a soupped-up A-36 as a business tool. I'm not sure their egos could take it.

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.

    ---------------------------------
    You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    ------------------------------------

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  3. #3

    Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

    Ummm hello, I am an ABS member and bonanza member as well, you are in deep
    trouble, sir ;}

    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Martin Vanover
    Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:42 PM
    To: Musketeer Group
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36



    We have withdrawn our Sierra from the marketplace. My partner decided to try
    it on his most common business trip from 57AZ (North of Tucson) to
    Tallahassee (TLH). Although not impressed with the speed (ex-jet jock), he
    was getting ~140 KTAS @ 8.5 gph. However, he was impressed with the range
    and economy. Only one fuel stop was required on the Eastbound leg (more
    bladder capacity than me!). His "other" airplane is a leased A-36 with 300
    hp. Nice, and fully equipped with lots of neat stuff in the panel. However,
    with only 74 gallons of fuel onboard, the thirsty Bonner requires two stops
    Eastbound to get to TLH. Making about 2 hours difference in total trip time
    in favor of the A-36, but saving over $300 in total fuel cost for the
    Sierra. As neither airplane is fast enough to allow any business to be done
    in TLH after the Eastbound leg (not counting 0:darkthirty departures), it
    doesn't make sense to use the A-36 just to save less than an hour enroute
    time on the
    Eastbound leg.

    Please don't let anyone in the American Bonanza Society hear that our Sierra
    beat out a soupped-up A-36 as a business tool. I'm not sure their egos could
    take it.

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.

    ---------------------------------
    You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
    Total Access, No Cost.

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    ------------------------------------

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  4. #4
    Guest
    Guest

    Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

    Hi All;
    This sounds like a great "IN" for someone wanting to sell a Sierra.
    I have 1977, beautiful Sierra C24R for SALE.
    It is listed with aviationclassifieds.com and I have reduced the price to sell in our interesting economic times...
    If anyone is interested in seeing it, we keep it in Hanover, Ontario and I will send information with pictures to anyone interested.
    thanks.
    Peter Fabricius
    (519) 364 2472
    pjfabricius@persona.ca


    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    ------------------------------------

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  5. #5

    Sierra vs. Bonanza A-36

    While it's' true that my partner doesn't aggressively lean engines. He does use the mixture knob on every flight. The A-36 is typically flown at 11.5K on the east bound segment. It does about 165 KTAS at that altitude and with the general westerly tail winds, 180-190 GS showing 15 gph. The airplane is fast, no doubt. Down lower the TAS works out to 175 KTAS with about 16.5 gph. The problem here is the extra fuel stop on a 1400 nm trip. With 74 gals of useable? Figure that the A-36 will have 11.25 gal reserve, use about 9 gals to run-up, T/O & CLB from 3K (our airport elevation) to 11.5K. This leaves 53.75 gallons for cruise, decent and landing. Should ground speed be less than 185 kts, and add a couple of dog-legs to avoid the restricted areas, some ATC excursions and you are way less than the 700 nm half way point in range (about 690 nm max without any deviations). So, an addtional fuel stop is necessary, especially if available airports necessatate a stop
    before max range is met on the first leg. It is also prudent to do so.

    I will concede that flying the A-36 at reduced power settings (55-65%) would improve the range and still be faster than the Sierra. I don't know why he doesn't do it. But, as an ex-Jet Jockey, I think the speed is the prime mover with him. For me, it's my checking account.

    Whereas OUR Sierra (yes, we get better speed than most), does 130+ KTAS at the same altitude and burns 8 gph (I generally get something less than 8 gph). With 56.5 usable fuel, 6 gals for a 45 min reserve and 5 gals for T/O & CLB to 11.5K gives 45.5 gals for cruise, decent & landing (5.7 hrs). With the same typical tail winds we see 145 - 155 GS. At 150 kts GS we get over 880 nm range, or almost 200 nm more than the A-36. Making the 1400 nm trip easily an one stop event (provided your bladder is capable). Moot point really, as the enroute time and time zone differences for both the Sierra and the Bonanza preclude any business on the day of departure. The only tangeable difference for this business trip between the two airplanes is fuel consumption. The costs difference on the last trip was about $300 less than the A-36 typically got. Again, minimized by using less throttle on the Bo.

    If you are burning 10 gph below 8,500 ft, you are most likely close to a 75% power setting and should be getting around 132 - 134 KTAS. At this power setting and fuel flow we get 143 KTAS. Of course, our full fuel cabin payload is only 600 lbs. I believe the Bonanza's do better in the payload department as they do in speed. I will conceed that a turbo Bonanza at nose bag altitudes will step right out in both speed and range. But the comparison was between two normally aspirated airplanes. Would I trade the Sierra for a Turbo Bonanza? YOU BET! I can't make much more than 3 hours airborne anyway! But, that is not an affordable option for me at the moment. Actually, flying out West here, I haven't seen a real need for a turbo. I fly VFR and topping the clouds / weather isn't usually a problem. I generally don't go into unimproved, short runways at any significant elevations or temps. I have had the Sierra up to 13.5K with out problems. So far, I have never had
    the need to go any higher. Granted, some do and it would be nice to have that capability if needed.

    Interesting that the block speeds are so low on your 400 nm trip KVEY to KAVL for both the Sierra and the Bonanza. But, I guess if you are in the "system" ATC can jerk you around, especially on the Eastern corridors. In "no-wind" conditions, the Sierra does 400 nm in three hours and will burn about 42 gals.

    If you are interested in how our Sierra is faster than most, check out "Sierra Performance" under the Flight Ops topic in the Technical Forum. I think I listed all the changes we did.

    As I finish this, I just saw the B-17 Sentimental Journey fly by enroute to Chandler Field. Another dream........

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.



    bolderdesignsi <jr@bdesigns.com> wrote:
    Both Sierra and Bonanza (V35B) owner. You are getting better speed on
    the Sierra and less on the Bo. For my typical trip from KEVY to KAVL
    it would be 4 hours in the Sierra and 3hr in V35B. I burn 5 more
    gallons in the Bonanza but get there an hour quicker.

    I'd plan 120kts 10 GPH for Sierra and 170kts 15 GPH for V35B.

    Both planes have nearly the same time endurance, but the BO does
    cover more miles.

    That's with a Turbo-normalized running LOP at 12,000' above a lot of
    the weather.

    With headwinds I'll take a Bonanza any day over the Sierra.

    For out west flying, nothing beats a Turbo and the ability to cruise
    up to 20,000' (My plane is going up for sale soon, going to a diesel.)


    Sounds like the A36 is not being flown right, too rich or out of
    rigging.




    ---------------------------------
    You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    ------------------------------------

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

Similar Threads

  1. Newby Sierra questions. Flying the Sierra.
    By flyingvet in forum Fly-Ins
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-28-2009, 11:38 AM
  2. C-35 Bonanza vs. Super III
    By skybound_sport in forum Musketeer-Mail Archive
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-18-2005, 08:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO