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Thread: Update - No start on Engine #1

  1. #1

    Update - No start on Engine #1

    Went out last night to check on plane again.

    I removed the cable connected to the starter, wired brushed it and the
    bolt, tapped on the starter twice and the engine started fine, sounded
    real good actually.

    I guess I still need the system looked at.

    8786M






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  2. #2

    Update - No start on Engine #1

    You might want to exchange more information with Willis (or Bob S, if he has time) offline, on what you can do to further evaluate this situation. This needs attention from someone very knowledgeable about the Continental starter drives and the IO346 engine. It will be very worthwhile for you to find that person and pay to have them check this out for you; perhaps Bob S, or Willis, or someone else who sees this and may be closer to you.

    None of the previous posts mentioned this, and I have no direct personal experience with it, but I sure have read a lot of horror stories about damaged and broken Continental starter drives putting steel and bronze slivers and fragments into the engine. Two of the several things I dislike about Continental engines is their starter adapter drives and (on some versions) their gear-driven alternators. These components seem to me to be unnecessarily expensive designs, which fairly often contaminate the engine with wear metals when they fail. A seized alternator or worn starter bearings shouldn't have the side effect of requiring an engine teardown or overhaul; and they don't, on the Lycomings.

    At the very least, your oil filter media needs very close examination; and it would probably be wise to be using an ongoing oil analysis program. It is apparently possible for the starter drive to be worn or broken (and "making metal"), and still be functioning enough to start the engine. It would be false economy to try to save the price of starter drive repair, if the result was the need for a much more expensive engine overhaul. Not to mention the fact that if metal contamination has damaged the crank and cam, you'll be in a real pickle until replacements can be located for the IO346.

    While metal fragments in theory will be caught by the oil filter, there are several drawbacks to relying on that theory. They will first have gone through the oil pump, damaging the pump. They can get past the filter media if the filter goes into bypass due to thick cold oil, or blockage. And contamination can be spread all through the engine by oil splash, long before it gets picked up and embedded in the filter media. Anyone who has opened up a contaminated engine can attest to how widespread metal particles can be, from a relatively localized source. Severe metal contamination can ruin virtually every moving part in an engine, dramatically increasing overhaul costs. When it occurs on that scale, it is also very difficult to completely remove it from all the nooks, crannies, and passages in the case and oil filter, if it embeds in softer metal. In turn, that increases the risk of subsequent excessive wear following an overhaul.

    Best of luck with this. Hopefully the situation will prove benign, but you need to know fairly quickly.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: jm8995
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:20 AM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Update - No start on Engine #1


    Went out last night to check on plane again.

    I removed the cable connected to the starter, wired brushed it and the
    bolt, tapped on the starter twice and the engine started fine, sounded
    real good actually.

    I guess I still need the system looked at.

    8786M

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  3. #3

    Update - No start on Engine #1

    I am based at Galveston, TX getting ready for a visit
    from Rita. Bob is in Birmingham, probably hoping that
    Rita doesn't visit him. I have no idea where 8786M
    lives. A clear indication that the drive adapter is
    the problem is if the starter runs fast but the engine
    doesn't turn over. If the dirty contact was the
    problem the starter might turn too slowly to engage or
    just sit there and hum.

    My non A&P/AI advice is that if after cleaning the
    connection everything seems normal I would fly and
    monitor carefully. If the starter runs but
    intermittantly does not engage I would be reluctant to
    do a lot of cross country. It is possible to prop the
    IO346, but not easy and it takes help from an old
    timer who is not afraid of the prop.

    As an aside. If you have to hand start an IO346 it is
    necessary to hold the key in the start position when
    you do the contact part of the start so that the
    shower of sparks viberator will run.

    --- Mike Rellihan <rellihan@rellihan.com> wrote:

    > You might want to exchange more information with
    > Willis (or Bob S, if he has time) offline, on what
    > you can do to further evaluate this situation. This
    > needs attention from someone very knowledgeable
    > about the Continental starter drives and the IO346
    > engine. It will be very worthwhile for you to find
    > that person and pay to have them check this out for
    > you; perhaps Bob S, or Willis, or someone else who
    > sees this and may be closer to you.
    >
    > None of the previous posts mentioned this, and I
    > have no direct personal experience with it, but I
    > sure have read a lot of horror stories about damaged
    > and broken Continental starter drives putting steel
    > and bronze slivers and fragments into the engine.
    > Two of the several things I dislike about
    > Continental engines is their starter adapter drives
    > and (on some versions) their gear-driven
    > alternators. These components seem to me to be
    > unnecessarily expensive designs, which fairly often
    > contaminate the engine with wear metals when they
    > fail. A seized alternator or worn starter bearings
    > shouldn't have the side effect of requiring an
    > engine teardown or overhaul; and they don't, on the
    > Lycomings.
    >
    > At the very least, your oil filter media needs very
    > close examination; and it would probably be wise to
    > be using an ongoing oil analysis program. It is
    > apparently possible for the starter drive to be worn
    > or broken (and "making metal"), and still be
    > functioning enough to start the engine. It would be
    > false economy to try to save the price of starter
    > drive repair, if the result was the need for a much
    > more expensive engine overhaul. Not to mention the
    > fact that if metal contamination has damaged the
    > crank and cam, you'll be in a real pickle until
    > replacements can be located for the IO346.
    >
    > While metal fragments in theory will be caught by
    > the oil filter, there are several drawbacks to
    > relying on that theory. They will first have gone
    > through the oil pump, damaging the pump. They can
    > get past the filter media if the filter goes into
    > bypass due to thick cold oil, or blockage. And
    > contamination can be spread all through the engine
    > by oil splash, long before it gets picked up and
    > embedded in the filter media. Anyone who has opened
    > up a contaminated engine can attest to how
    > widespread metal particles can be, from a relatively
    > localized source. Severe metal contamination can
    > ruin virtually every moving part in an engine,
    > dramatically increasing overhaul costs. When it
    > occurs on that scale, it is also very difficult to
    > completely remove it from all the nooks, crannies,
    > and passages in the case and oil filter, if it
    > embeds in softer metal. In turn, that increases the
    > risk of subsequent excessive wear following an
    > overhaul.
    >
    > Best of luck with this. Hopefully the situation
    > will prove benign, but you need to know fairly
    > quickly.
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: jm8995
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:20 AM
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Update - No start on
    > Engine #1
    >
    >
    > Went out last night to check on plane again.
    >
    > I removed the cable connected to the starter,
    > wired brushed it and the
    > bolt, tapped on the starter twice and the engine
    > started fine, sounded
    > real good actually.
    >
    > I guess I still need the system looked at.
    >
    > 8786M
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
    > removed]
    >
    >
    >
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    > --------------------~-->
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    > Yahoo! your home page
    >
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    >
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
    >
    >
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    > for the Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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