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Thread: bottom of door scrapes wing but fit looks good?

  1. #1

    bottom of door scrapes wing but fit looks good?

    I looked at a musketeer years ago that did that. The
    guy said it never did it until after a hard landing. I
    was thinking to myself "very hard". I didn't buy it.

    Dan Kirby Sierra N9299S



    --- Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:

    >
    > >I'm hoping this can be fixed w/o changing the hinge
    > - Mike and Bob have
    > >written
    > >LOTS about the different kinds of Piano Hinge, and
    > about how the new stuff
    > >from Raytheon is 'junque.'
    >
    > To be more correct, the "new" parts are from an
    > obsolete style of hinge
    > that is hard to source. (We have provided supplier
    > info in the past, check
    > the archives.)
    >
    > If I were to be confronted with this problem today,
    > I'd replace the hinge
    > (both halves) with MS20001P hinge. Sure its a bit
    > more work to do both
    > halves, but you'd have current production hinge
    > rather than antique 60's
    > stuff to work with.
    >
    > Depending on your IA and FSDO, some may think a
    > field approval is
    > needed. Ought to be a cake walk, as the FAA
    > understands obsolete hardware
    > replaced with a new call-out.
    >
    > Its a couple hours of labor to remove the door and
    > drill out the rivets,
    > install new hinge and rivet it all back in. Not
    > anything that should cost
    > a great deal of money.
    >
    > As for if this is Kerry's real problem, got any
    > ripples in the top wing
    > skin inboard of the gear? I've seen BENT WING SPARS
    > cause a loss of
    > clearance between the door and the skin over the
    > fuel tank...
    >
    > Sure hope THAT isn't your problem.
    >
    > Bob Steward, A&P IA
    > Birmingham, AL
    >
    >
    >
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  2. #2

    bottom of door scrapes wing but fit looks good?

    There is evidence on my musketeer that in the past,
    the door scraped the wing. There is also evidence of
    a new piano hinge being installed to the plane. No
    problems now...

    Jay

    --- Ann Kirby <abk100@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I looked at a musketeer years ago that did that. The
    > guy said it never did it until after a hard landing.
    > I
    > was thinking to myself "very hard". I didn't buy it.
    >
    > Dan Kirby Sierra N9299S
    >
    >
    >
    > --- Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > >I'm hoping this can be fixed w/o changing the
    > hinge
    > > - Mike and Bob have
    > > >written
    > > >LOTS about the different kinds of Piano Hinge,
    > and
    > > about how the new stuff
    > > >from Raytheon is 'junque.'
    > >
    > > To be more correct, the "new" parts are from an
    > > obsolete style of hinge
    > > that is hard to source. (We have provided
    > supplier
    > > info in the past, check
    > > the archives.)
    > >
    > > If I were to be confronted with this problem
    > today,
    > > I'd replace the hinge
    > > (both halves) with MS20001P hinge. Sure its a bit
    > > more work to do both
    > > halves, but you'd have current production hinge
    > > rather than antique 60's
    > > stuff to work with.
    > >
    > > Depending on your IA and FSDO, some may think a
    > > field approval is
    > > needed. Ought to be a cake walk, as the FAA
    > > understands obsolete hardware
    > > replaced with a new call-out.
    > >
    > > Its a couple hours of labor to remove the door and
    > > drill out the rivets,
    > > install new hinge and rivet it all back in. Not
    > > anything that should cost
    > > a great deal of money.
    > >
    > > As for if this is Kerry's real problem, got any
    > > ripples in the top wing
    > > skin inboard of the gear? I've seen BENT WING
    > SPARS
    > > cause a loss of
    > > clearance between the door and the skin over the
    > > fuel tank...
    > >
    > > Sure hope THAT isn't your problem.
    > >
    > > Bob Steward, A&P IA
    > > Birmingham, AL
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > --------------------~-->
    > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
    > Make
    > > Yahoo! your home page
    > >
    >
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    > >
    >
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club
    > > for the Musketeer series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
    > http://mail.yahoo.com
    >


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  3. #3

    bottom of door scrapes wing but fit looks good?

    All the posted replies on this have contained good info. I'll add two thoughts, in case they help salvage an otherwise more complex situation. Before either idea is tried, make certain that a thorough hard landing inspection is made. Skin wrinkles, protruding gear housing attachment screw heads, bent or wrinkled brackets, etc.

    1. If the door fits the frame quite closely when closed, and the piano hinge has very little (meaning "normal") play in it (the door does not sag when released from the jamb, and can't be "rocked" up and down), it might be reasonable to trim the aluminum lower edge of the door just enough to regain needed clearance. It can easily be draw-filed by removing the door brace mounting screw on the door, and swinging the door toward the cowling. Draw-filing means you hold the file perpendicular to the edge (with one hand on each side), and squarely against it, and pull the file toward you. It is almost a lost art, but it will smoothly remove clean slivers, leaving a shiny and square edge that is free of uneven file marks. The shaved edge can be more easily treated and painted, too.

    2. If the hinge is loose and a new hinge seems to be required, try just a new hinge pin first. May or may not take out enough of the play.

    Something that has always puzzled me about designs like this, is why the designer didn't lay out the hinge so that it is canted just a few degrees aft at the top. That way the door would tend to rise ever so slightly as it opened, providing more clearance for wing dihedral (or hard landings!).

    Note that Bob's MS20001P hinge comment refers to a replacement extruded hinge with an anodized finish. If you are replacing only one-half of the hinge, this will not mate with the original NAS40 hinge. It is also not as quite as strong as the NAS40; that's why Beech used the MS20001 across most of the Stabilator tab, and used NAS40 for the outboard six inches on both sides. They also used the NAS40 on the doors, rather than the MS20001, for longer life where there could be "hanging wear".

    The MS20001 superseded the NAS40 for design purposes; but the difference in strength has to be taken into account in the design. It will certainly work on the doors; and would be far better than the rolled-hinge crap that Beech as been selling as the fit-compatible NAS40 replacement. It isn't likely to last as long as the NAS40, in the fairly short vertical length used on the doors that don't have the two external hinges. Personally, I'll be using NAS40 to replace NAS40, for as long as I can get it from Genuine Aircraft Hardware, for the locations on the plane where Beech designed it in.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: James Bruce
    To: Ann Kirby ; Bob Steward ; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:59 PM
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: bottom of door scrapes wing but fit looks good?


    There is evidence on my musketeer that in the past,
    the door scraped the wing. There is also evidence of
    a new piano hinge being installed to the plane. No
    problems now...

    Jay

    --- Ann Kirby <abk100@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I looked at a musketeer years ago that did that. The
    > guy said it never did it until after a hard landing.
    > I
    > was thinking to myself "very hard". I didn't buy it.
    >
    > Dan Kirby Sierra N9299S
    >
    >
    >
    > --- Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > >I'm hoping this can be fixed w/o changing the
    > hinge
    > > - Mike and Bob have
    > > >written
    > > >LOTS about the different kinds of Piano Hinge,
    > and
    > > about how the new stuff
    > > >from Raytheon is 'junque.'
    > >
    > > To be more correct, the "new" parts are from an
    > > obsolete style of hinge
    > > that is hard to source. (We have provided
    > supplier
    > > info in the past, check
    > > the archives.)
    > >
    > > If I were to be confronted with this problem
    > today,
    > > I'd replace the hinge
    > > (both halves) with MS20001P hinge. Sure its a bit
    > > more work to do both
    > > halves, but you'd have current production hinge
    > > rather than antique 60's
    > > stuff to work with.
    > >
    > > Depending on your IA and FSDO, some may think a
    > > field approval is
    > > needed. Ought to be a cake walk, as the FAA
    > > understands obsolete hardware
    > > replaced with a new call-out.
    > >
    > > Its a couple hours of labor to remove the door and
    > > drill out the rivets,
    > > install new hinge and rivet it all back in. Not
    > > anything that should cost
    > > a great deal of money.
    > >
    > > As for if this is Kerry's real problem, got any
    > > ripples in the top wing
    > > skin inboard of the gear? I've seen BENT WING
    > SPARS
    > > cause a loss of
    > > clearance between the door and the skin over the
    > > fuel tank...
    > >
    > > Sure hope THAT isn't your problem.
    > >
    > > Bob Steward, A&P IA
    > > Birmingham, AL

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    www.beechaeroclub.org


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    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

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