Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Cool Airport

  1. #1

    Cool Airport

    If anybody is flying out west you have to fly out Catalina Island off
    the coast of southern CA. It is a island with a airport on top of its
    small mountains. It is 1600msl with a great view and wild Buffalo on
    the island. I flew a TBM700 in there on Monday with my family. I
    little
    to long of of a trip in my Sundowner from Orlando. The aiport is AVX.

    Jeff Ryndak
    N2008T




    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Find out about Red Bull Air Race.
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/hQw31A/QKh...UaAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  2. #2

    Cool Airport

    I've always wanted to fly in there.
    How was it?
    I heard the runway had cracks/potholes.
    How about the length? No problem for a mouse?

    Adam
    N7966L
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeff Ryndak
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:57 PM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Cool Airport


    If anybody is flying out west you have to fly out Catalina Island off
    the coast of southern CA. It is a island with a airport on top of its
    small mountains. It is 1600msl with a great view and wild Buffalo on
    the island. I flew a TBM700 in there on Monday with my family. I
    little
    to long of of a trip in my Sundowner from Orlando. The aiport is AVX.

    Jeff Ryndak
    N2008T




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org





    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    a.. Visit your group "musketeermail" on the web.

    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Find out about Red Bull Air Race.
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/hQw31A/QKh...UaAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  3. #3

    Cool Airport

    Catalina Island is a pretty neat place to fly to. The runway has a slope at
    both ends which meets in the middle. If you are at the 04 end of the runway,
    you cannot see traffic which may be taking the 22 end. Another hazard is the
    location itself. It sits in a cliff and has a real good drop off at each
    end. See the picture at Airnav: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAVX

    No need for a VASI. You will know if your too low.

    Jeff Bryant
    Southwest Regional Director
    Beech Aero Club




    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of The Weiss Family
    Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:03 PM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Cool Airport


    I've always wanted to fly in there.
    How was it?
    I heard the runway had cracks/potholes.
    How about the length? No problem for a mouse?

    Adam
    N7966L
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeff Ryndak
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:57 PM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Cool Airport


    If anybody is flying out west you have to fly out Catalina Island off
    the coast of southern CA. It is a island with a airport on top of its
    small mountains. It is 1600msl with a great view and wild Buffalo on
    the island. I flew a TBM700 in there on Monday with my family. I
    little
    to long of of a trip in my Sundowner from Orlando. The aiport is AVX.

    Jeff Ryndak
    N2008T




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org





    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    a.. Visit your group "musketeermail" on the web.

    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
    Service.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






    SPONSORED LINKS
    Aviation
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=...chool&w2=A
    viation+training&w3=Aviation+training+school&a mp;w4=Aviation+training+schools&w5
    =Aviation+training+academy&c=5&s=136&. sig=LCZu7c3-HSTr-DLuhLOR2Q> school
    Aviation
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=...+school&w2
    =Aviation+training&w3=Aviation+training+school &w4=Aviation+training+schools&
    w5=Aviation+training+academy&c=5&s=136&amp ;.sig=hm4K5SzsAUYOqBr0Ql5l1w> training
    Aviation
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=...w1=Aviation+sc
    hool&w2=Aviation+training&w3=Aviation+trai ning+school&w4=Aviation+training+s
    chools&w5=Aviation+training+academy&c=5&am p;s=136&.sig=g_rmhswaTPt7xYe2b9mrtA>
    training school
    Aviation
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=...;w1=Aviation+s
    chool&w2=Aviation+training&w3=Aviation+tra ining+school&w4=Aviation+training+
    schools&w5=Aviation+training+academy&c=5&a mp;s=136&.sig=0FKmwosqac65oN6Qk_HMiQ>
    training schools Aviation
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=...;w1=Aviation+s
    chool&w2=Aviation+training&w3=Aviation+tra ining+school&w4=Aviation+training+
    schools&w5=Aviation+training+academy&c=5&a mp;s=136&.sig=NBRG952Pyxne0LxLH1VHTA>
    training academy

    _____

    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



    * Visit your group "musketeermail
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.


    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
    <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


    _____




    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Find out about Red Bull Air Race.
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/hQw31A/QKh...UaAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  4. #4

    Cool Airport

    Catalinia Island airport as 2971 feeet which is long enough for a
    Musketeer also twins and King Airs regularly operate out of that
    airport. It does have a "poor condition" rating with pot holes and
    soft spots. See http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAVX for further info.

    You also need to remember that it is 26 miles of open water between
    the LA shoreline and Catalina Island. There aren't many boats except
    on weekends and there are fewer as you get mid channel. For that
    reason, most of the airplane renters in LA insist that you carry
    flotation and fly high (6500 ft), The reason is that if the engine
    quits you can glide closer or even to the shore. Ditching a fixed
    gear airplane could knock you unconcious and airplanes do not float
    long enough for you to come around. Ditching can also flip you over
    if you do it too fast. Also the Pacific ocean is cold with summer
    temperatures mid channel in the low 60s. You will develop hypothermia
    in 30 minutes or less.



    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "The Weiss Family"
    <weissfamily97@c...> wrote:
    >
    > I've always wanted to fly in there.
    > How was it?
    > I heard the runway had cracks/potholes.
    > How about the length? No problem for a mouse?
    >
    > Adam
    > N7966L
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Jeff Ryndak
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:57 PM
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Cool Airport
    >
    >
    > If anybody is flying out west you have to fly out Catalina Island
    off
    > the coast of southern CA. It is a island with a airport on top of
    its
    > small mountains. It is 1600msl with a great view and wild Buffalo
    on
    > the island. I flew a TBM700 in there on Monday with my family. I
    > little
    > to long of of a trip in my Sundowner from Orlando. The aiport is
    AVX.
    >
    > Jeff Ryndak
    > N2008T
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    > a.. Visit your group "musketeermail" on the web.
    >
    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
    of Service.
    >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >






    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Find out about Red Bull Air Race.
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/hQw31A/QKh...UaAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  5. #5

    Cool Airport

    From Musketeer mail Tom Corcoran of Boston wrote:
    >>July 26, 2003 Pownal Bay, Prince Edward Island, Canada:

    >>Musketeers do not float! You have a minute to get everyone out the
    >>(one) door. Water landings are not an option.

    >>I did not flip upside down. I can only guess it's worse.

    >>Tom Corcoran
    >>Boston

    Directly applicable experience (Bad) about floating airplanes,
    particularly Musketeers.

    Whether you flip or not depnds on a lot of factors, however airliners
    do NOT ditch in open water with their landing gear down.


    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Gaspard"
    <jgaspard@c...> wrote:
    >
    > Your comments about dithing are not supported by the facts. You are
    > correct, it is wise to fly high and carry GOOD floatation devices,
    but
    > largely because the primary danger in ditching is surviving after
    getting
    > out of the aircraft. According to the NTSB, ditching an aircraft is
    > statistically safer than any other form of off-airport landings,
    with less
    > than a 12% fatality/serious injury rate. Of that 12%, 60% were
    injuries or
    > deaths after the event, such as drownings trying to swim to shore.
    >
    > Aircraft flipping is a myth. Highwings traping people is a myth.
    Aircraft,
    > while not great at floating, do not sink particularly fast and in
    many
    > recent cases down here, have held up long enough for the Coast
    Guard to
    > arrive (fuel is lighter than water, remember?). Additionally,
    ditching is no
    > more violent of an event than any soft field landing, at least
    according to
    > the people who have done it.
    >
    > Joseph
    > N9758L
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of ajpcps
    > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 6:30 AM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Cool Airport
    >
    > Catalinia Island airport as 2971 feeet which is long enough for a
    Musketeer
    > also twins and King Airs regularly operate out of that airport. It
    does
    > have a "poor condition" rating with pot holes and soft spots. See
    > http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAVX for further info.
    >
    > You also need to remember that it is 26 miles of open water between
    the LA
    > shoreline and Catalina Island. There aren't many boats except on
    weekends
    > and there are fewer as you get mid channel. For that reason, most
    of the
    > airplane renters in LA insist that you carry flotation and fly high
    (6500
    > ft), The reason is that if the engine quits you can glide closer
    or even to
    > the shore. Ditching a fixed gear airplane could knock you
    unconcious and
    > airplanes do not float long enough for you to come around.
    Ditching can
    > also flip you over if you do it too fast. Also the Pacific ocean
    is cold
    > with summer temperatures mid channel in the low 60s. You will
    develop
    > hypothermia in 30 minutes or less.
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "The Weiss Family"
    > <weissfamily97@c...> wrote:
    > >
    > > I've always wanted to fly in there.
    > > How was it?
    > > I heard the runway had cracks/potholes.
    > > How about the length? No problem for a mouse?
    > >
    > > Adam
    > > N7966L
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Jeff Ryndak
    > > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:57 PM
    > > Subject: [musketeermail] Cool Airport
    > >
    > >
    > > If anybody is flying out west you have to fly out Catalina
    Island
    > off
    > > the coast of southern CA. It is a island with a airport on top
    of
    > its
    > > small mountains. It is 1600msl with a great view and wild
    Buffalo
    > on
    > > the island. I flew a TBM700 in there on Monday with my family. I
    > > little
    > > to long of of a trip in my Sundowner from Orlando. The aiport is
    > AVX.
    > >
    > > Jeff Ryndak
    > > N2008T
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    > Musketeer series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    > ----------
    > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    > >
    > > a.. Visit your group "musketeermail" on the web.
    > >
    > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
    > of Service.
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    > ----------
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
    ~--> Find
    > out about Red Bull Air Race.
    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/hQw31A/QKh...UaAA/SyTolB/TM
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    ~->
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >






    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  6. #6

    Cool Airport

    Please cool off, Joseph. No needs for attacks on subjects like this. All
    input is welcome, and we all decide things based on all the available info.
    Tom Corcoran is a well-respected member of this Forum, who had to personally
    ditch his Mouse. He is reflecting his personal experience in his comments.
    Both the NTSB and Tom have valid input on this subject, and we can all learn
    from both. Statistics do matter, as they reflect likelihoods. Tom's
    personal experience, with a plane model that most of us actually fly, also
    does matter. This line of aircraft is more nose-heavy than most. While, in
    conjunction with its Stabilator, it gives us a very wide CG range, it also
    means that it will likely tip up faster in water. That increases the risk
    of entrapment, and the risk of driving the air out sooner.



    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Joseph Gaspard
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 12:34 PM
    To: 'ajpcps'; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [musketeermail] Re: Cool Airport



    Great. An unsubstantiated story by some guy on the Beech website that
    doesn't mention the tail number, pilots name, actual date of the event or
    any other facts to support his assumptions, or give us the ability to look
    it up ourselves. Oh, did I forget to mention the two photos that seem to
    suggest the aircraft isn't in water deep enough to come to the author's
    conclusions in the first place?

    I'd rather trust the opinion of the experts at the NTSB and the FAA
    investigators who actually go to these scenes and talk about it at FSS
    briefings we get multiple times a year. They have a bit more basis in
    reality to them than a poorly written, un-researched article posted on a web
    site without any editorial oversight. Could the aircraft have sunk quickly?
    Yes. Could it have floated for 20-30 minutes? Yes. Could the pilot have just
    been in a wild panic to get out of the aircraft and telling tall tails about
    how fast it was sinking? Maybe, who knows? His judgment immediately before
    the accident was certainly questionable, so I would tend to question his
    judgment afterwards unless the facts supported him.

    Comparing ditching by an airliner to your beech is just plain silly. A 767
    weighs 345,000 pounds, a 747 about 835,000 pounds, both depending on cargo
    and fuel. A 747 stalls at about 180-200 knots. You weigh the comparative
    equivalent of a gnat and even fully loaded, will probably touch the water at
    less than 35 knots after flair.

    No matter how much logic I apply to this, however, you will still continue
    to hold onto you opinion. It's human nature. You owe it to yourself not to
    believe me or this Tom Corcoran guy. Look it up. The facts are all there,
    on-line at the NTSB, the FAA and many other authoritative sites.

    http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
    http://www.faa.gov/safety/data_statistics/nasdac
    http://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com

    And finally, Paul Bertorelli, a rather highly regarded Key West pilot and
    aviation writer associated with Douglas Ritter (another respected aviation
    journalist and pilot) and Aviation Consumer News, sums everything up quite
    nicely, with supporting facts, in a 1999 article for Aviation Safety
    Magazine: http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm . The FSDO here in San
    Diego cites this article as authoritative in their water emergency seminars,
    which you can also find on-line.

    My point to all of this? Stop spreading panic. If pilots assume the cannot
    survive, they won't be prepared. Ditching an aircraft is not only VERY
    survivable but may be a much better alternative than a beach or other hard
    surface when faced with an emergency. As pilots, we own it to ourselves and
    our passengers to make the best possible decisions in the worse possible
    situations. Be prepared (Dual-cell life vests, raft, flares, appropriate
    clothing) to do what it takes to survive afterwards, which should be of much
    greater concern.


    Joseph
    N9758L



    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of ajpcps
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 7:09 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Cool Airport

    >From Musketeer mail Tom Corcoran of Boston wrote:
    >>July 26, 2003 Pownal Bay, Prince Edward Island, Canada:

    >>Musketeers do not float! You have a minute to get everyone out the
    >>(one) door. Water landings are not an option.

    >>I did not flip upside down. I can only guess it's worse.

    >>Tom Corcoran
    >>Boston

    Directly applicable experience (Bad) about floating airplanes, particularly
    Musketeers.

    Whether you flip or not depnds on a lot of factors, however airliners do NOT
    ditch in open water with their landing gear down.



    _____



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  7. #7

    Cool Airport

    >Ditching an aircraft is not only VERY survivable but may be a much better
    >alternative than a beach or other hard surface when faced with an emergency.

    Speaking from personal experience, as a young, low time pilot more than 30
    years ago, a beach landing is eminently survivable, and even allowed the
    plane to be reused after some repairs. Landing in salt water, no matter
    the outcome of the landing and evacuation, would have totalled the plane.

    I'd touchdown on a beach (in a Beech!) if I had the need to land without
    the benefit of an airport under me.

    > From Musketeer mail Tom Corcoran of Boston wrote:
    > >>July 26, 2003 Pownal Bay, Prince Edward Island, Canada:
    >
    > >>Musketeers do not float! You have a minute to get everyone out the
    > >>(one) door. Water landings are not an option.
    >
    > >>I did not flip upside down. I can only guess it's worse.

    Having 2 senior members of Musketeer Mail post the actual results of their
    water and beach landings is of more benefit to the members of MM than all
    the "experts" that have never actually set a plane down in the water or on
    the beach.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  8. #8
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth sjcote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Springfield, Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,178

    Cool Airport

    Vented your spleen now? Good.
    We know Tom. He's telling the truth. He tells it like it is. It's called
    experience. It doesn't matter if it is the experience of one incident.
    It was his experience. Call us back when you have your experience, hmm?
    You insinuate that he is a liar and/or a deluded fool. He is neither.
    Disagree...but don't slander.
    Steve Cote
    N1958L

    PS: The tide had gone out by the time the photos were taken.

    Joseph Gaspard wrote:

    > Great. An unsubstantiated story by some guy on the Beech website that
    > doesn't mention the tail number, pilots name, actual date of the event or
    > any other facts to support his assumptions, or give us the ability to look
    > it up ourselves. Oh, did I forget to mention the two photos that seem to
    > suggest the aircraft isn't in water deep enough to come to the author's
    > conclusions in the first place?
    >
    > I'd rather trust the opinion of the experts at the NTSB and the FAA
    > investigators who actually go to these scenes and talk about it at FSS
    > briefings we get multiple times a year. They have a bit more basis in
    > reality to them than a poorly written, un-researched article posted on
    > a web
    > site without any editorial oversight. Could the aircraft have sunk
    > quickly?
    > Yes. Could it have floated for 20-30 minutes? Yes. Could the pilot
    > have just
    > been in a wild panic to get out of the aircraft and telling tall tails
    > about
    > how fast it was sinking? Maybe, who knows? His judgment immediately before
    > the accident was certainly questionable, so I would tend to question his
    > judgment afterwards unless the facts supported him.
    >
    > Comparing ditching by an airliner to your beech is just plain silly. A 767
    > weighs 345,000 pounds, a 747 about 835,000 pounds, both depending on cargo
    > and fuel. A 747 stalls at about 180-200 knots. You weigh the comparative
    > equivalent of a gnat and even fully loaded, will probably touch the
    > water at
    > less than 35 knots after flair.
    >
    > No matter how much logic I apply to this, however, you will still continue
    > to hold onto you opinion. It's human nature. You owe it to yourself not to
    > believe me or this Tom Corcoran guy. Look it up. The facts are all there,
    > on-line at the NTSB, the FAA and many other authoritative sites.
    >
    > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
    > http://www.faa.gov/safety/data_statistics/nasdac
    > http://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com
    >
    > And finally, Paul Bertorelli, a rather highly regarded Key West pilot and
    > aviation writer associated with Douglas Ritter (another respected aviation
    > journalist and pilot) and Aviation Consumer News, sums everything up quite
    > nicely, with supporting facts, in a 1999 article for Aviation Safety
    > Magazine: http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm . The FSDO here in San
    > Diego cites this article as authoritative in their water emergency
    > seminars,
    > which you can also find on-line.
    >
    > My point to all of this? Stop spreading panic. If pilots assume the cannot
    > survive, they won't be prepared. Ditching an aircraft is not only VERY
    > survivable but may be a much better alternative than a beach or other hard
    > surface when faced with an emergency. As pilots, we own it to
    > ourselves and
    > our passengers to make the best possible decisions in the worse possible
    > situations. Be prepared (Dual-cell life vests, raft, flares, appropriate
    > clothing) to do what it takes to survive afterwards, which should be
    > of much
    > greater concern.
    >
    >
    > Joseph
    > N9758L
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of ajpcps
    > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 7:09 AM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Cool Airport
    >
    > >From Musketeer mail Tom Corcoran of Boston wrote:
    > >>July 26, 2003 Pownal Bay, Prince Edward Island, Canada:
    >
    > >>Musketeers do not float! You have a minute to get everyone out the
    > >>(one) door. Water landings are not an option.
    >
    > >>I did not flip upside down. I can only guess it's worse.
    >
    > >>Tom Corcoran
    > >>Boston
    >
    > Directly applicable experience (Bad) about floating airplanes,
    > particularly
    > Musketeers.
    >
    > Whether you flip or not depnds on a lot of factors, however airliners
    > do NOT
    > ditch in open water with their landing gear down.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    > series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    > * Visit your group "musketeermail
    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail>" on the web.
    >
    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
    >
    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
    > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
    Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
    http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Similar Threads

  1. Cool shot of a Skipper
    By Clinderman in forum Fly-Ins
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-19-2009, 06:09 PM
  2. [musketeermail] Cool Airport
    By jbryant in forum BAC Mail Archive - DO NOT POST HERE
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-08-2005, 08:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO