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Thread: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

  1. #1

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    Steve, I'll honor your wishes about the GPS. Regardless, you are pouring
    money into a rat-hole trying to get and keep an ADF working in this day and
    age. Everything you touch on them costs a relative fortune, and I suspect
    you can count on one hand, the number of shops left in the country that can
    conclusively repair them. Most just throw your parts money at the problem
    anymore. The shops have lost all their experience with them over the past
    ten years, and parts have dried up as well. I have posted on this subject
    before. I have also posted on a radiated interference problem with them
    that is somewhat unique to our planes; the wiring between the regulator and
    alternator, and regulator and OV relay, both on the cabin side of the
    firewall. You can do a BAC search on 'KR86 ADF' and read all of it, if you
    like.







    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of n7991l
    Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:25 PM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed



    I have an ADF, KR-86 that I have spent lots of money in last 2 years to
    fix but still does not work. Please no comments about GPS, I don't have
    the cash and I want to get this going so I can complete my IFR ticket.

    I'm pretty convinced that the antenna a KA-42B is bad. The reason is
    that the ADF pretty much only points to nose or tail. On ground with
    strong radio station it will point "correctly" but not with NDB. I
    have eliminated electrial interference, that was the old reason but
    ain't the one now, pretty confident of this statement.

    I do not have an avionics shop on my field. Does anyone have an idea
    on how to test the KA-42B. What should the loop impedance be, how
    about the sense. Anyway to eliminate the sense or the loop from the
    equation?

    Better yet anyone have a KA-42B laying around that I could test/buy if
    it fixes my problem.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Steve





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  2. #2

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    Steve, I you "must' have an ADF to pass the test...why
    don't you RENT an airplane for the test and stop
    throwing money in the deep bottomless ADF money pit..
    Maybe there is a Musketeer driver somewhere close to
    you who has the equipment that is needed and is
    prepared to let you borrow his aircraft for a few
    hours...

    Cheers
    HarryR


    --- Mike Rellihan <rellihan@rellihan.com> wrote:

    > Steve, I'll honor your wishes about the GPS.
    > Regardless, you are pouring
    > money into a rat-hole trying to get and keep an ADF
    > working in this day and
    > age. Everything you touch on them costs a relative
    > fortune, and I suspect
    > you can count on one hand, the number of shops left
    > in the country that can
    > conclusively repair them. Most just throw your
    > parts money at the problem
    > anymore. The shops have lost all their experience
    > with them over the past
    > ten years, and parts have dried up as well. I have
    > posted on this subject
    > before. I have also posted on a radiated
    > interference problem with them
    > that is somewhat unique to our planes; the wiring
    > between the regulator and
    > alternator, and regulator and OV relay, both on the
    > cabin side of the
    > firewall. You can do a BAC search on 'KR86 ADF' and
    > read all of it, if you
    > like.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of n7991l
    > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:25 PM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Avionics ADF KR-86 Help
    > Needed
    >
    >
    >
    > I have an ADF, KR-86 that I have spent lots of money
    > in last 2 years to
    > fix but still does not work. Please no comments
    > about GPS, I don't have
    > the cash and I want to get this going so I can
    > complete my IFR ticket.
    >
    > I'm pretty convinced that the antenna a KA-42B is
    > bad. The reason is
    > that the ADF pretty much only points to nose or
    > tail. On ground with
    > strong radio station it will point "correctly" but
    > not with NDB. I
    > have eliminated electrial interference, that was the
    > old reason but
    > ain't the one now, pretty confident of this
    > statement.
    >
    > I do not have an avionics shop on my field. Does
    > anyone have an idea
    > on how to test the KA-42B. What should the loop
    > impedance be, how
    > about the sense. Anyway to eliminate the sense or
    > the loop from the
    > equation?
    >
    > Better yet anyone have a KA-42B laying around that I
    > could test/buy if
    > it fixes my problem.
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club
    > for the Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    >
    >
    > * Visit your group "musketeermail
    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on
    > the web.
    >
    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
    >
    >
    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
    > Yahoo!
    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of
    > Service.
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
    > removed]
    >
    >




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  3. #3

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "n7991l" <smurray59@v...> wrote:
    >
    > I have an ADF, KR-86 that I have spent lots of money in last 2
    years to
    > fix but still does not work.

    *** One word for you, Steve: "Ebay".



    Please no comments about GPS, I don't have
    > the cash and I want to get this going so I can complete my IFR
    ticket.
    >
    > I'm pretty convinced that the antenna a KA-42B is bad. The reason
    is
    > that the ADF pretty much only points to nose or tail. On ground
    with
    > strong radio station it will point "correctly" but not with NDB.

    *** You might try pulling the antenna and cleaning the connections.
    The antenna might also require a ground plane to work right. Surface
    corrosion on the aluminum could make that ground plane less than
    satisfactory.

    Another problem could be in the meter movement itself. "Modern"
    ADFs have a set of coils inside the movement that duplicate the
    magnetic environment of the antenna. The servo moves both the meter
    needle and a miniature "antenna" inside that electromagnetic field.
    One of those "Why didn't I think of that" things....


    My Sundowner has an even older unit - a KR-85. Works pretty well.
    I think it's a good aid to situational awareness as long as you don't
    have to fly approaches with it - it's nice when there's an NDB on the
    field - that way you have a needle that points at the airport while
    you fly some other sort of approach .

    Are you sure you need the ADF to complete your Instrument? As
    I remember, you need to do two nonprecision approaches. Say,
    a VOR approach and a localizer approach? Just slap an INOP sticker
    on it, go take your checkride, then fiddle with it afterwards....

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )






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  4. #4

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for his
    check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is not
    required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF because
    they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the FAF. If
    the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to need
    the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of me.

    Best regards,

    Steve Robertson
    N4732J 1967 Super III

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory" <bflory@c...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Steve,
    >
    > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool with it on
    my
    > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not work. I
    think it
    > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop to look
    at it, as
    > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it to "not" work
    on the
    > check ride.
    >
    > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    interested. I
    > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions rather
    than use an
    > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really cool.
    >
    > Brent Flory
    > Freedom Lawns
    > N257RD
    >






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  5. #5

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    I thought the FAF on an ILS was the glideslope intercept when at
    final approach (level) altitude or the outer marker. an NDB co-
    located with the OM or the OM itself was the FAF for a Localizer
    approach. ???



    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    >
    > For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for his
    > check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is not
    > required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF
    because
    > they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the FAF. If
    > the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to need
    > the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of me.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Steve Robertson
    > N4732J 1967 Super III
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory" <bflory@c...>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > Steve,
    > >
    > > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool with it
    on
    > my
    > > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not work.
    I
    > think it
    > > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop to look
    > at it, as
    > > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it to "not" work
    > on the
    > > check ride.
    > >
    > > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    > interested. I
    > > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions rather
    > than use an
    > > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really cool.
    > >
    > > Brent Flory
    > > Freedom Lawns
    > > N257RD
    > >
    >






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  6. #6

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    I've heard that if you have the ADF marked "Inoperative," and it truly
    is inoperative, that you don't have to use it for the in-flight test.
    Best to check in advance with the examiner.


    David Snodgrass
    BAC East Central Regional Director
    Beech Be23 N6083N
    North Manchester, IN


    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scott
    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM
    To: ajpcps; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    The ADF is only required if it is installed on the aircraft you are
    using for your ride. No ADF, no problem.

    Scott
    MGM


    On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:15:26 -0000, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@yahoo.com> wrote :

    > I thought the FAF on an ILS was the glideslope intercept when at final

    > approach (level) altitude or the outer marker. an NDB co- located
    > with the OM or the OM itself was the FAF for a Localizer approach. ???
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    > >
    > > For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for his
    > > check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is not
    > > required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF
    > because
    > > they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the FAF. If
    > > the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to need
    > > the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of me.
    > >
    > > Best regards,
    > >
    > > Steve Robertson
    > > N4732J 1967 Super III
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory" <bflory@c...>
    > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Steve,
    > > >
    > > > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool with it
    > on
    > > my
    > > > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not work.
    > I
    > > think it
    > > > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop to look
    > > at it, as
    > > > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it to "not" work
    > > on the
    > > > check ride.
    > > >
    > > > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    > > interested. I
    > > > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions rather
    > > than use an
    > > > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really cool.
    > > >
    > > > Brent Flory
    > > > Freedom Lawns
    > > > N257RD
    > > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


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    series!

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    Yahoo! Groups Links








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  7. #7

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    This might be a double post; please forgive me if it is.

    It is absolutely true that if you don't have a working ADF, the
    examiner can't require an ADF approach as part of the checkride.

    It's also true that you must demonstrate an precision (ILS) approach.
    There are *many* ILS approaches in our land that use an NDB instead
    of an outer marker for the IAF (I mistakenly called this the FAF in
    my earlier post). No, I'm not talking about a LOM, which is an NDB co-
    located with an outer marker. Check out this approach
    http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0510/06354I4.PDF

    Now, can somebody tell me how you can fly this one legally without an
    ADF? You can't! Note that it state "ADF Required" and there is no
    terminal radar service of any kind to provide a fix for you. So, if
    you are going on your checkride without an operating ADF, you can't
    fly this approach to satisfy the ILS portion. That means you have to
    either go to a distant airport to take the ride or else take your
    examiner for a long ride to get to field with a non-ADF ILS. Note
    that there are also a large number of LOC and SDF approaches that
    require an ADF. None of these can be used on a checkride without an
    operational ADF.

    So, to the original poster, you don't need and ADF. But take a look
    at the approaches in your area. If you don't have a nearby ILS that
    doesn't require an ADF, you need to either get your ADF working or
    plan to take your ride in a different area.

    Best regards,

    Steve Robertson
    N4732J 1967 Super III

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Snodgrass, David L."
    <david.snodgrass@u...> wrote:
    >
    > I've heard that if you have the ADF marked "Inoperative," and it
    truly
    > is inoperative, that you don't have to use it for the in-flight
    test.
    > Best to check in advance with the examiner.
    >
    >
    > David Snodgrass
    > BAC East Central Regional Director
    > Beech Be23 N6083N
    > North Manchester, IN
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scott
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM
    > To: ajpcps; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed
    >
    > The ADF is only required if it is installed on the aircraft you are
    > using for your ride. No ADF, no problem.
    >
    > Scott
    > MGM
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:15:26 -0000, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote :
    >
    > > I thought the FAF on an ILS was the glideslope intercept when at
    final
    >
    > > approach (level) altitude or the outer marker. an NDB co-
    located
    > > with the OM or the OM itself was the FAF for a Localizer
    approach. ???
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for
    his
    > > > check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is
    not
    > > > required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF
    > > because
    > > > they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the FAF.
    If
    > > > the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to
    need
    > > > the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of
    me.
    > > >
    > > > Best regards,
    > > >
    > > > Steve Robertson
    > > > N4732J 1967 Super III
    > > >
    > > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory"
    <bflory@c...>
    > > > wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Steve,
    > > > >
    > > > > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool with
    it
    > > on
    > > > my
    > > > > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not
    work.
    > > I
    > > > think it
    > > > > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop to
    look
    > > > at it, as
    > > > > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it to "not"
    work
    > > > on the
    > > > > check ride.
    > > > >
    > > > > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    > > > interested. I
    > > > > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions
    rather
    > > > than use an
    > > > > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really
    cool.
    > > > >
    > > > > Brent Flory
    > > > > Freedom Lawns
    > > > > N257RD
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
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    ~->
    >
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    > series!
    >
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    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >






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  8. #8

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    You're right a working ADF is required. Although I don't know why
    the FAA would even design this approach this way at all. With the
    unreliability of ADF, it doesn't make sense. I do note the approach
    gives a radial from an intersection which may also be defined from a
    VOR that appears to define the IAF just as well.

    Poor design in my opinion.

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    >
    > This might be a double post; please forgive me if it is.
    >
    > It is absolutely true that if you don't have a working ADF, the
    > examiner can't require an ADF approach as part of the checkride.
    >
    > It's also true that you must demonstrate an precision (ILS)
    approach.
    > There are *many* ILS approaches in our land that use an NDB instead
    > of an outer marker for the IAF (I mistakenly called this the FAF in
    > my earlier post). No, I'm not talking about a LOM, which is an NDB
    co-
    > located with an outer marker. Check out this approach
    > http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0510/06354I4.PDF
    >
    > Now, can somebody tell me how you can fly this one legally without
    an
    > ADF? You can't! Note that it state "ADF Required" and there is no
    > terminal radar service of any kind to provide a fix for you. So, if
    > you are going on your checkride without an operating ADF, you can't
    > fly this approach to satisfy the ILS portion. That means you have
    to
    > either go to a distant airport to take the ride or else take your
    > examiner for a long ride to get to field with a non-ADF ILS. Note
    > that there are also a large number of LOC and SDF approaches that
    > require an ADF. None of these can be used on a checkride without an
    > operational ADF.
    >
    > So, to the original poster, you don't need and ADF. But take a look
    > at the approaches in your area. If you don't have a nearby ILS that
    > doesn't require an ADF, you need to either get your ADF working or
    > plan to take your ride in a different area.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Steve Robertson
    > N4732J 1967 Super III
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Snodgrass, David L."
    > <david.snodgrass@u...> wrote:
    > >
    > > I've heard that if you have the ADF marked "Inoperative," and it
    > truly
    > > is inoperative, that you don't have to use it for the in-flight
    > test.
    > > Best to check in advance with the examiner.
    > >
    > >
    > > David Snodgrass
    > > BAC East Central Regional Director
    > > Beech Be23 N6083N
    > > North Manchester, IN
    > >
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scott
    > > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM
    > > To: ajpcps; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed
    > >
    > > The ADF is only required if it is installed on the aircraft you
    are
    > > using for your ride. No ADF, no problem.
    > >
    > > Scott
    > > MGM
    > >
    > >
    > > On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:15:26 -0000, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote :
    > >
    > > > I thought the FAF on an ILS was the glideslope intercept when
    at
    > final
    > >
    > > > approach (level) altitude or the outer marker. an NDB co-
    > located
    > > > with the OM or the OM itself was the FAF for a Localizer
    > approach. ???
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...>
    wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for
    > his
    > > > > check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is
    > not
    > > > > required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF
    > > > because
    > > > > they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the
    FAF.
    > If
    > > > > the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to
    > need
    > > > > the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of
    > me.
    > > > >
    > > > > Best regards,
    > > > >
    > > > > Steve Robertson
    > > > > N4732J 1967 Super III
    > > > >
    > > > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory"
    > <bflory@c...>
    > > > > wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Steve,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool
    with
    > it
    > > > on
    > > > > my
    > > > > > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not
    > work.
    > > > I
    > > > > think it
    > > > > > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop
    to
    > look
    > > > > at it, as
    > > > > > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it
    to "not"
    > work
    > > > > on the
    > > > > > check ride.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    > > > > interested. I
    > > > > > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions
    > rather
    > > > > than use an
    > > > > > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really
    > cool.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Brent Flory
    > > > > > Freedom Lawns
    > > > > > N257RD
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    > Musketeer
    > > series!
    > > >
    > > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------
    -
    > ~-->
    > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
    > home
    > > page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    > ~->
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > > series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    >






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  9. #9

    Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed

    Sure you can as long as you have an IFR certified GPS that has HUCHN in the
    database. I know this answer is off the original question because he doesn't
    have a GPS but I'm just answering the part about flying this specified
    approach with the "ADF Required" note and not having one. My answer to the
    original poster is in agreement with others, if you do not have an ADF or if
    it is INOP you do not have to demonstrate an approach that requires it. I
    wish I wouldn't have had one when I took my checkride because I had to do a
    full NDB approach, gives me the willies thinking about it.



    Randy





    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of ke4oh
    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:38 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed



    This might be a double post; please forgive me if it is.

    It is absolutely true that if you don't have a working ADF, the
    examiner can't require an ADF approach as part of the checkride.

    It's also true that you must demonstrate an precision (ILS) approach.
    There are *many* ILS approaches in our land that use an NDB instead
    of an outer marker for the IAF (I mistakenly called this the FAF in
    my earlier post). No, I'm not talking about a LOM, which is an NDB co-
    located with an outer marker. Check out this approach
    http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0510/06354I4.PDF

    Now, can somebody tell me how you can fly this one legally without an
    ADF? You can't! Note that it state "ADF Required" and there is no
    terminal radar service of any kind to provide a fix for you. So, if
    you are going on your checkride without an operating ADF, you can't
    fly this approach to satisfy the ILS portion. That means you have to
    either go to a distant airport to take the ride or else take your
    examiner for a long ride to get to field with a non-ADF ILS. Note
    that there are also a large number of LOC and SDF approaches that
    require an ADF. None of these can be used on a checkride without an
    operational ADF.

    So, to the original poster, you don't need and ADF. But take a look
    at the approaches in your area. If you don't have a nearby ILS that
    doesn't require an ADF, you need to either get your ADF working or
    plan to take your ride in a different area.

    Best regards,

    Steve Robertson
    N4732J 1967 Super III

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Snodgrass, David L."
    <david.snodgrass@u...> wrote:
    >
    > I've heard that if you have the ADF marked "Inoperative," and it
    truly
    > is inoperative, that you don't have to use it for the in-flight
    test.
    > Best to check in advance with the examiner.
    >
    >
    > David Snodgrass
    > BAC East Central Regional Director
    > Beech Be23 N6083N
    > North Manchester, IN
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scott
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM
    > To: ajpcps; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Avionics ADF KR-86 Help Needed
    >
    > The ADF is only required if it is installed on the aircraft you are
    > using for your ride. No ADF, no problem.
    >
    > Scott
    > MGM
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:15:26 -0000, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote :
    >
    > > I thought the FAF on an ILS was the glideslope intercept when at
    final
    >
    > > approach (level) altitude or the outer marker. an NDB co-
    located
    > > with the OM or the OM itself was the FAF for a Localizer
    approach. ???
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ke4oh" <ke4oh@y...> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > For all those assuring Steve that he doesn't need an ADF for
    his
    > > > check ride ... You might be wrong! It is true that an ADF is
    not
    > > > required per se. However, many ILS approaches require an ADF
    > > because
    > > > they use an NDB instead of an outer marker to identify the FAF.
    If
    > > > the nearest ILS to Steve is one of these, then he is going to
    need
    > > > the ADF. There are two such ILS approaches within 50 miles of
    me.
    > > >
    > > > Best regards,
    > > >
    > > > Steve Robertson
    > > > N4732J 1967 Super III
    > > >
    > > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Flory"
    <bflory@c...>
    > > > wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Steve,
    > > > >
    > > > > I have an ADF that I removed so I would not have to fool with
    it
    > > on
    > > > my
    > > > > instrument check ride. Every once in a while it would not
    work.
    > > I
    > > > think it
    > > > > was a simple connection but did not ask our avionics shop to
    look
    > > > at it, as
    > > > > it was easier to remove it. I just did not want it to "not"
    work
    > > > on the
    > > > > check ride.
    > > > >
    > > > > It is for sale. Not sure the make but will check if you are
    > > > interested. I
    > > > > would risk my vfr GPS illegally in instrument conditions
    rather
    > > > than use an
    > > > > ADF. Personal opinion. I have a Garmin 396 that is really
    cool.
    > > > >
    > > > > Brent Flory
    > > > > Freedom Lawns
    > > > > N257RD
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
    ~-->
    > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
    home
    > page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUI...LSAA/SyTolB/TM
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    ~->
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    > series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >






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