Not to sound like a broken record on the issue, but I also suspect that the
firm landings many people tend to experience on the 19/23/24 airframes are
the direct result of hardened hockey pucks for cushions, which do nothing to
absorb landing shock. The tires and wings do all the work, and only the
tires can do much cushioning at all (despite our nice wide gear, great in
crosswinds). I would be interested to hear reports for those who have
recently replaced their gear cushions, on the effect new disks have had on
their touchdowns. A large majority of the 19/23/24 airframes still have
their original gear cushions, which are virtually all hardened and cracked
by now.

Kerry is on the money, about not dragging these planes in fast, with power,
on a flat approach. Unless you are virtually behind the power curve, which
means very slow, very nose high, and significant power on (which is scary to
many people), a flat approach will make you skip like a rock when you first
touch down. As has often been said, about the third bounce will get your
prop. It can be landed on the second touchdown, if you were ready and
handle it right, but the safest course of action after a bounce is an
immediate go-around. In these planes, a hand on the throttle during each
landing is a wise readiness precaution; usually a good precaution in any
plane, but I see a lot of two-handed touchdowns (usually with a death

I was surprised by the wind commentary in the original note in this string.
I have not flown the 19, but I have always found the 23/24 airframes to
handle wind (crosswind or otherwise) far better than the equivalent Cessnas
and Pipers. In almost all cases, skids following touchdown are the result
of landing with side drift, and/or not retracting the flaps immediately upon
touchdown, prior to any braking. Any flaps at all, at near touchdown
speeds, will cause wheel lock with any significant braking pressure. On the
retract (24), flap retraction should pose no risk of inadvertent gear
retraction. Many of the planes have manual flaps (which I prefer). Those
with electric flaps conform to standard layout, with the controls well
separated. The gear safety switch also prevents retraction below about 60
MPH indicated. Though I would not relay on that, in case some jerk has
bypassed it rather than replace it, following a failure. It is supposed to
be tested during every Annual, as the retraction on jacks can't be
accomplished unless the switch is activated by air pressure. That's a clue,
if your Sierra gear can be retracted while on jacks, without gently blowing
air into the Pitot tube..


From: []
On Behalf Of Kerry Muller
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:33 AM
Subject: [musketeermail] Re: First Flight in Mouse


I've had my Sundowner almost a year and was flying a rental pa28-181
before that. Bottom line for me... the pa28 was always very easy to
land. The Sundowner took me longer to get consistently good
landings. It wasn't any one thing - but a combination of a few
things I had to sort out. Like everyone says - speed control..
70knots on final, 60-65 over the fence. Also, my experience is it
does not like to be dragged in with a shallow approach... slightly
steeper and carrying a little power right to the threshold, 2 or 3
notches of flaps. If you can get the stall horn to chirp just
before it settles you know you've nailed it.


--- In, "a1_sonse" <a1_sonse@y...>
> Guy's
> To Clear a few things up, the BE-23 I was flying is a 1963 with
> 160hp lycoming. My first landing (on the grass strip I did a go
> around due to flairing early). After that lesson the landings
> improved. Crossed over runway at about 80mph indicated & landings
> were good. But, it seemed fast compaired to a pa28-181 with full
> flaps on the same landing strip (what I usually fly). Skid
> on a paved runway & in hindsight I may have hit the brake a little
> at touchdown to keep it straight. The initial touchdown, with no
> flaps, was good.
> The reason for flying this aircraft was to see if the type was one
> may want to consider purchaseing, & it was the only one I could
> for rent. I think a Super 3 or Sundowner would be more to my
> if I could find one I could afford. As I said I liked the way it
> flew otherwise.
> Just more Info.
> Shannon Evans

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