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Thread: cabin size, by comparison

  1. #1

    cabin size, by comparison

    Patrick, the Musketeer does have more room in the cabin than the Pipers. The cabin is taller and you sit up straighter. I think my Musketeer is 42" but that is not the whole story. The measurement from the center of the pilot seat to where the left shoulder hits the window is the important dimension and that is never given in the POH. The best thing is to sit in the seat and see how it feels. If you can sit there for five hours or so it is better. I am 5' 11" and 245 lbs. I have short legs and long torso with broad shoulders and of course carry too much weight. My left shoulder hits the window and is less than comfortable. I have lots of head room. I routinely fly 4 hour legs and occasionally more than 5 hours. I can still walk at the end. My biggest day was from 7 am one day to 1 am the next day. I landed four times and was on the ground about an hour each time. This took me from Galveston TX to League City TX to Springfield Mo to Denton TX to College
    Station TX and back to Galveston. I was tired but I survived.

    I have only a few hours in the Cherokee. It was not too bad, but had just barely enough head room and my big feet kept hitting some kind of bar when I went for the brakes. The longest Cherokee flights were about an hour and a half.

    My Musketeer is a 1965 model with flat sides. I think that the newer model Sundowners have a more curved side and a bit more shoulder room, but I have never flown one.

    I have the Continental IO346 engine. I flight plan for 2500 rpm and 104 knots. The best I remember the 160 hp Warrior that I flew was about the same speed or slower. Don't pay much attention to the POH speeds. Mostly they are a figment of the writer's imagination for both Beech and Piper. Use pilot anicdotes or subtract 10% to get a better picture. My piper experience was shooting instrument approaches with a friend, so I didn't get a really good feel for the cruise speed. I have flown formation with a Cessna 172 and it and my airplane were about the same speed.

    Hope this helps, Willis

    Patrick <phins2left@yahoo.com> wrote: Don't know if this has been discussed here before, but a quick search
    of the message section didn't turn anything up, so.....

    I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase. Because I do not have
    a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I like the Cherokee /
    Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so it's a comfort zone)
    and have really thought all along that I'd be going that route.
    Recently, though, someone pointed out that the Musketeer might also
    fit my needs, but would do so with more interior room.

    I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the beam of their cabin
    at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to provide the data?

    Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by those who have
    significant time in both a/c. I understand that for the same (or
    less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more speed, but comfort is a
    major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and girth (over 250...and
    'nuff said about that!).

    Thanks for any help!!

    Patrick








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  2. #2

    cabin size, by comparison

    Here is an extract from a past forum exchange on the BAC website. It would
    be money well spent, and probably the smallest investment in your entire
    aircraft purchase overhead, for you to join the Beech Aero Club to research
    your purchase. There is a ton of information there to help guide your
    purchase decision and a Pre-purchase/Annual inspection. Many new owners
    have joined prior to their purchase, for just that reason, and have been
    very glad that they did. I know of one instance in which someone spent more
    than $700 that could have been saved, had they been a member and done 30
    minutes of research.



    "I can't say this with absolute authority, but my understanding from
    available reference material is that the 19s and 23s had an interior cabin
    front seat width of 39.5" at the lower window molding. In mid-1970 this was
    increased to 44" on the 19/23/24, basically in both front and back, by
    bowing out the cabin above the door sill level.

    All the Bonanzas and Barons have a cabin width of 42", though they differ in
    length by model. The Cherokee/PA28 line is generally reported to have a
    cabin width of 42". I have never measured one, but it sure seems tighter
    than a Bonanza when I am sitting in a Cherokee or Warrior."



    As noted in the response from Willis, the 19/23/24 also has much more
    headroom than the competition. You should consider the latest model you can
    afford, since they typically received more doors, larger baggage door,
    better ventilation, better avionics, etc. as the years progressed.





    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Patrick
    Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:38 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] cabin size, by comparison



    Don't know if this has been discussed here before, but a quick search
    of the message section didn't turn anything up, so.....

    I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase. Because I do not have
    a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I like the Cherokee /
    Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so it's a comfort zone)
    and have really thought all along that I'd be going that route.
    Recently, though, someone pointed out that the Musketeer might also
    fit my needs, but would do so with more interior room.

    I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the beam of their cabin
    at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to provide the data?

    Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by those who have
    significant time in both a/c. I understand that for the same (or
    less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more speed, but comfort is a
    major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and girth (over 250...and
    'nuff said about that!).

    Thanks for any help!!

    Patrick







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  3. #3

    cabin size, by comparison

    I agree with that . I am 5 8 and 175 lbs. Had a Mooney
    231 which , when measured as per the POH is quite
    roomy. however when you get in there things don't look
    that roomy at all and they don't feel roomy either. In
    addition, it feels like an Italian sport car , you
    need LONG legs, short arms. This also does not show up
    in the POH. As a matter of fact I had to install
    rudder extentions to get a comfortable push all the
    way to the floor board. The seating in my Sierra is
    almost turbo prop spacious. Super visibility up, down
    ( in front of the wings AND you can even see the
    stabilizer tips just by turning your head. The yoke is
    good size so you can actually put a portable GPS or
    clock or an approach chart on it without covering the
    whole dash for you.
    These are also considerations to take into account.

    HarryR

    --- WILLIS COOKE <wrcooke@flash.net> wrote:

    > Patrick, the Musketeer does have more room in the
    > cabin than the Pipers. The cabin is taller and you
    > sit up straighter. I think my Musketeer is 42" but
    > that is not the whole story. The measurement from
    > the center of the pilot seat to where the left
    > shoulder hits the window is the important dimension
    > and that is never given in the POH. The best thing
    > is to sit in the seat and see how it feels. If you
    > can sit there for five hours or so it is better. I
    > am 5' 11" and 245 lbs. I have short legs and long
    > torso with broad shoulders and of course carry too
    > much weight. My left shoulder hits the window and
    > is less than comfortable. I have lots of head
    > room. I routinely fly 4 hour legs and occasionally
    > more than 5 hours. I can still walk at the end.
    > My biggest day was from 7 am one day to 1 am the
    > next day. I landed four times and was on the ground
    > about an hour each time. This took me from
    > Galveston TX to League City TX to Springfield Mo to
    > Denton TX to College
    > Station TX and back to Galveston. I was tired but
    > I survived.
    >
    > I have only a few hours in the Cherokee. It was
    > not too bad, but had just barely enough head room
    > and my big feet kept hitting some kind of bar when
    > I went for the brakes. The longest Cherokee flights
    > were about an hour and a half.
    >
    > My Musketeer is a 1965 model with flat sides. I
    > think that the newer model Sundowners have a more
    > curved side and a bit more shoulder room, but I
    > have never flown one.
    >
    > I have the Continental IO346 engine. I flight
    > plan for 2500 rpm and 104 knots. The best I
    > remember the 160 hp Warrior that I flew was about
    > the same speed or slower. Don't pay much attention
    > to the POH speeds. Mostly they are a figment of
    > the writer's imagination for both Beech and Piper.
    > Use pilot anicdotes or subtract 10% to get a better
    > picture. My piper experience was shooting
    > instrument approaches with a friend, so I didn't get
    > a really good feel for the cruise speed. I have
    > flown formation with a Cessna 172 and it and my
    > airplane were about the same speed.
    >
    > Hope this helps, Willis
    >
    > Patrick <phins2left@yahoo.com> wrote: Don't know
    > if this has been discussed here before, but a quick
    > search
    > of the message section didn't turn anything up,
    > so.....
    >
    > I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase.
    > Because I do not have
    > a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I
    > like the Cherokee /
    > Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so it's
    > a comfort zone)
    > and have really thought all along that I'd be going
    > that route.
    > Recently, though, someone pointed out that the
    > Musketeer might also
    > fit my needs, but would do so with more interior
    > room.
    >
    > I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the
    > beam of their cabin
    > at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to
    > provide the data?
    >
    > Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by
    > those who have
    > significant time in both a/c. I understand that for
    > the same (or
    > less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more speed,
    > but comfort is a
    > major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and
    > girth (over 250...and
    > 'nuff said about that!).
    >
    > Thanks for any help!!
    >
    > Patrick
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club
    > for the Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
    > removed]
    >
    >


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  4. #4
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth corcoran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Braintree and Cape Cod, Massachusetts,
    Posts
    1,086

    cabin size, by comparison

    Patrick,

    Amongst the many reasons why the Musketeer series is a better buy that the Cherokees... isn't just a larger cabin for comfort. Seldom it's mentioned, but very important to comfort, is the height of the seats off the floor. If you've ever sat in a Cherokee for a long time with your butt only inches off the floor, you'll enjoy the "chair height" of the Beech. And, if you buy a Sundowner, you get a bigger Musketeer with two doors.

    I have about 600 hours in Cherokees and about 3,000 in Beech 23's. That's why I bought a Sundowner. You should too.

    Tom Corcoran
    Boston

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick <phins2left@yahoo.com>
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:37:33 -0000
    Subject: [musketeermail] cabin size, by comparison


    Don't know if this has been discussed here before, but a quick search
    of the message section didn't turn anything up, so.....

    I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase. Because I do not have
    a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I like the Cherokee /
    Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so it's a comfort zone)
    and have really thought all along that I'd be going that route.
    Recently, though, someone pointed out that the Musketeer might also
    fit my needs, but would do so with more interior room.

    I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the beam of their cabin
    at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to provide the data?

    Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by those who have
    significant time in both a/c. I understand that for the same (or
    less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more speed, but comfort is a
    major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and girth (over 250...and
    'nuff said about that!).

    Thanks for any help!!

    Patrick








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  5. #5

    cabin size, by comparison

    Patrick,

    These guys are right on. I have about 200 hrs in the
    pipers, (and was brave or foolish enough to tow
    banners with a cherokee 140,) and over 2000 hrs in the
    sundowner, and they win in all areas except speed, and
    the few knots and the few minutes have never been a
    factor for me. I just get to fly a little longer.
    Most parts aren't beech exclusive, and the ones that
    are you don't need often. Go with Beech.

    Dan Kirby, Sierra N9299S

    --- cloydvanhook <cloydvanhook@imtt.com> wrote:

    > Patrick,
    >
    > I think Willis is right on. I think I've seen 42"
    > stated for the
    > Musketeer in a plane review. I've also measured
    > mine and I think
    > that's what I got at the base of the window. I
    > think the reports
    > give the Sundowner at 44" and I measured a friends
    > and that's right
    > too. Until recently I didn't realize the newer
    > airframes were wider.
    >
    > You're right at where I was about three years ago
    > before I bought
    > Minnie (1963 Musketeer) my first and so far only
    > plane.
    >
    > I was looking at older Cherokees, trying to stay
    > under $30K when I
    > heard of the Musketeer. I've only spent about an
    > hour in a Cherokee
    > and about the same in a Warrior. The Musketeer is
    > definitely
    > roomier and more comfortable. (BTW I'm only about
    > 5'7" and 175# so
    > I don't need as much room.) You didn't mention the
    > Cessna 172.
    > They tend to be more expensive than comparable
    > Pipers or Beech.
    > Comparing the Mouse to the Cherokee or the Sundowner
    > to the Warrier
    > (newer models) you'll find the Beech products are
    > roomier, more
    > comfortable, carry more gas (that's always nice if
    > you don't have
    > faith in your navigation skills, like I didn't at
    > the time) are
    > generally less expensive to purchase. You'll also
    > hear that Beech
    > parts are pricey. That's true but I've had Minnie
    > for over three
    > years and I haven't bought anything from Beech yet.
    > Practically
    > everything I buy for Minnie comes from Aircraft
    > Spruce and cost the
    > same whether it goes on a Beech or a Piper.
    >
    > When you look at the Beech versus the Piper I think
    > you'll find that
    > the Beech just looks (and is) more robust. When I
    > first saw a
    > Musketeer and looked at the gear I thought it
    > belonged on a carrier
    > deck.
    >
    > I've been happy with my choice. I hope you will be
    > with yours
    > whichever route you take.
    >
    > Cloyd Van Hook
    > President, Beech Aero Club
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, WILLIS COOKE
    > <wrcooke@f...>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > Patrick, the Musketeer does have more room in the
    > cabin than the
    > Pipers. The cabin is taller and you sit up
    > straighter. I think my
    > Musketeer is 42" but that is not the whole story.
    > The measurement
    > from the center of the pilot seat to where the left
    > shoulder hits
    > the window is the important dimension and that is
    > never given in
    > the POH. The best thing is to sit in the seat and
    > see how it
    > feels. If you can sit there for five hours or so
    > it is better. I
    > am 5' 11" and 245 lbs. I have short legs and long
    > torso with broad
    > shoulders and of course carry too much weight. My
    > left shoulder
    > hits the window and is less than comfortable. I
    > have lots of head
    > room. I routinely fly 4 hour legs and occasionally
    > more than 5
    > hours. I can still walk at the end. My biggest
    > day was from 7 am
    > one day to 1 am the next day. I landed four times
    > and was on the
    > ground about an hour each time. This took me from
    > Galveston TX to
    > League City TX to Springfield Mo to Denton TX to
    > College
    > > Station TX and back to Galveston. I was tired
    > but I survived.
    > >
    > > I have only a few hours in the Cherokee. It was
    > not too bad,
    > but had just barely enough head room and my big
    > feet kept hitting
    > some kind of bar when I went for the brakes. The
    > longest Cherokee
    > flights were about an hour and a half.
    > >
    > > My Musketeer is a 1965 model with flat sides. I
    > think that the
    > newer model Sundowners have a more curved side and a
    > bit more
    > shoulder room, but I have never flown one.
    > >
    > > I have the Continental IO346 engine. I flight
    > plan for 2500
    > rpm and 104 knots. The best I remember the 160 hp
    > Warrior that I
    > flew was about the same speed or slower. Don't pay
    > much attention
    > to the POH speeds. Mostly they are a figment of
    > the writer's
    > imagination for both Beech and Piper. Use pilot
    > anicdotes or
    > subtract 10% to get a better picture. My piper
    > experience was
    > shooting instrument approaches with a friend, so I
    > didn't get a
    > really good feel for the cruise speed. I have
    > flown formation with
    > a Cessna 172 and it and my airplane were about the
    > same speed.
    > >
    > > Hope this helps, Willis
    > >
    > > Patrick <phins2left@y...> wrote: Don't know if
    > this has been
    > discussed here before, but a quick search
    > > of the message section didn't turn anything up,
    > so.....
    > >
    > > I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase.
    > Because I do not
    > have
    > > a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I
    > like the
    > Cherokee /
    > > Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so
    > it's a comfort
    > zone)
    > > and have really thought all along that I'd be
    > going that route.
    > > Recently, though, someone pointed out that the
    > Musketeer might also
    > > fit my needs, but would do so with more interior
    > room.
    > >
    > > I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the
    > beam of their
    > cabin
    > > at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to
    > provide the
    > data?
    > >
    > > Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by
    > those who have
    > > significant time in both a/c. I understand that
    > for the same (or
    > > less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more
    > speed, but comfort is
    > a
    > > major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and
    > girth (over
    > 250...and
    > > 'nuff said about that!).
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help!!
    > >
    > > Patrick
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club
    > for the
    > Musketeer series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    === message truncated ===


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  6. #6

    cabin size, by comparison

    Patrick,
    To be quite honest, in my search for a plane I had the same
    consideration.

    The REAL thing that sold me on the Beech was Quality and Price.

    The airframe of the Beech is MUCH more stout than the Piper, (ask your
    A&P).
    The fit of things ont he Beech is much better.
    The COST of parts for the Beech airframe (engines are the same) are USUALLY
    higher.
    THe cost of maintainence is about the same.
    The PRICE of equally equipped aircraft is quite different.. The Pipers are
    more !!! Probably due to popularity. Resale price typically follows the
    purchase price.
    My partner and I decided on the Beech after one look and one time of we both
    getting in. We have the 2 door Sundowner and no contest there.
    No seat to crawl over. He gets in, I get in and our shoulders do not touch.

    So, that's why we bought the Beech.

    Dr Bill
    N9230S
    76 Sundowner

    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Patrick
    Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:38 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] cabin size, by comparison


    Don't know if this has been discussed here before, but a quick search
    of the message section didn't turn anything up, so.....

    I'm gearing up for a spring airplane purchase. Because I do not have
    a partner, I'm trying to keep the costs down. I like the Cherokee /
    Warrior line quite a bit (I trained in them, so it's a comfort zone)
    and have really thought all along that I'd be going that route.
    Recently, though, someone pointed out that the Musketeer might also
    fit my needs, but would do so with more interior room.

    I don't suppose anyone out there has measured the beam of their cabin
    at shoulder and hip height and would be willing to provide the data?

    Also, I would appreciate anectodal comparisons by those who have
    significant time in both a/c. I understand that for the same (or
    less) engine in the cherokee, I may get more speed, but comfort is a
    major factor for someone of my height (6'4) and girth (over 250...and
    'nuff said about that!).

    Thanks for any help!!

    Patrick







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