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Thread: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question

  1. #1

    [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question

    My opinion, but could be wrong (or incomplete).



    The Sporty's unit is an Artificial Horizon/Attitude Indicator with an
    inclinometer mounted on it. It probably does not have the canted gyro; I
    don't see how it could, and still show accurate pitch information under all
    conditions.

    The old Turn And Bank instruments also did not have the canted gyro. They
    were essentially an AH without the pitch information.

    The newer Turn Coordinator instruments have the canted gyro so that they can
    better (marginally better) function as an emergency replacement during an AH
    failure, by being more sensitive to initial rate of change in roll
    associated with a change in pitch (did I say that right?!).

    With the electric AI, which makes a vastly better alternative to a failed
    vacuum AI, you get both pitch and roll information. If you are actually
    slipping or skidding, the superimposed slip-skid ball will still show that.
    So my take is that you have gained the additional (vastly better) pitch
    information, without giving up and roll or slip-skid information.

    On top of that, you get a failed-gyro flag, that does not disappear until
    the rotor is actually up to full speed; you get internal lighting; you get
    caging capability, in case you are practicing maneuvers that can bang your
    gyro around; and you get a gyro unit that is most likely better made than
    the original one in your plane.





    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Kerry Muller
    Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:03 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question



    One thing that I wonder about with Sporty's backup AI ... It is
    approved to completely take the place of the turn indicator but it
    seems to me that it operates just like an AI with a turn coordinator
    stuck on it. So I'm guessing for example, that if you were to slip
    around a turn with wings relatively level, a turn indicator would
    show it whereas an AI would not. I think it has something to do with
    the gyro being canted in a turn indicator.

    So with Sporty's backup AI, do you lose the functionality of the turn
    indicator?



    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    wrote:
    >
    > I have one on order, but they claim it won't arrive until March
    (delayed
    > Christmas present to myself). The demand for these has been
    phenomenal.
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: bac-mail-bounces@b...
    > [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@b...] On Behalf Of Greg MacPherson
    > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:12 PM
    > To: bac-mail@b...
    > Subject: [BAC-Mail] Sporty's backup AI
    >
    > We are interested in any information from someone who has used the
    Sporty's
    > backup AI.
    >
    >
    >
    > Greg MacPherson, N18996
    >
    > 890 West End Avenue, #11C
    >
    > New York, NY 10025
    >
    > t 212-316-4590
    >
    > c 917-679-0565
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > BAC-Mail mailing list
    > BAC-Mail@b...
    > http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail
    >






    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






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  2. #2
    gregesmith at aol.com
    Guest

    [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question

    Another Rellihan homer.
    Mike, I'm sure glad you're around.
    Greg

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mike Rellihan <rellihan@rellihan.com>
    To: 'Kerry Muller' <kmuller@csc.com>; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com; bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    Sent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:04:16 -0500
    Subject: RE: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question


    My opinion, but could be wrong (or incomplete).



    The Sporty's unit is an Artificial Horizon/Attitude Indicator with an
    inclinometer mounted on it. It probably does not have the canted gyro; I
    don't see how it could, and still show accurate pitch information under all
    conditions.

    The old Turn And Bank instruments also did not have the canted gyro. They
    were essentially an AH without the pitch information.

    The newer Turn Coordinator instruments have the canted gyro so that they can
    better (marginally better) function as an emergency replacement during an AH
    failure, by being more sensitive to initial rate of change in roll
    associated with a change in pitch (did I say that right?!).

    With the electric AI, which makes a vastly better alternative to a failed
    vacuum AI, you get both pitch and roll information. If you are actually
    slipping or skidding, the superimposed slip-skid ball will still show that.
    So my take is that you have gained the additional (vastly better) pitch
    information, without giving up and roll or slip-skid information.

    On top of that, you get a failed-gyro flag, that does not disappear until
    the rotor is actually up to full speed; you get internal lighting; you get
    caging capability, in case you are practicing maneuvers that can bang your
    gyro around; and you get a gyro unit that is most likely better made than
    the original one in your plane.





    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Kerry Muller
    Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:03 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question



    One thing that I wonder about with Sporty's backup AI ... It is
    approved to completely take the place of the turn indicator but it
    seems to me that it operates just like an AI with a turn coordinator
    stuck on it. So I'm guessing for example, that if you were to slip
    around a turn with wings relatively level, a turn indicator would
    show it whereas an AI would not. I think it has something to do with
    the gyro being canted in a turn indicator.

    So with Sporty's backup AI, do you lose the functionality of the turn
    indicator?



    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    wrote:
    >
    > I have one on order, but they claim it won't arrive until March
    (delayed
    > Christmas present to myself). The demand for these has been
    phenomenal.
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: bac-mail-bounces@b...
    > [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@b...] On Behalf Of Greg MacPherson
    > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:12 PM
    > To: bac-mail@b...
    > Subject: [BAC-Mail] Sporty's backup AI
    >
    > We are interested in any information from someone who has used the
    Sporty's
    > backup AI.
    >
    >
    >
    > Greg MacPherson, N18996
    >
    > 890 West End Avenue, #11C
    >
    > New York, NY 10025
    >
    > t 212-316-4590
    >
    > c 917-679-0565
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > BAC-Mail mailing list
    > BAC-Mail@b...
    > http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail
    >






    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






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    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.

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  3. #3
    rich at dahab.com
    Guest

    [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question

    If you read sporty's write up, they acknowledge that issue, but claim that
    the loss of turn rate is an acceptible trade off to get an artificial
    horizon.

    I ordered one for Feb delivery. My A&P is going to put it where the tach is
    and remount the tach on the right side of the panel if the FSDO agrees.
    (Which he should because that is where Cessna puts the tach.) Then I will
    still have a turn coordinator and 2 AI's.

    RIch Dahab


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@rellihan.com>
    To: "'Kerry Muller'" <kmuller@csc.com>; <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>;
    <bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org>
    Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 2:04 PM
    Subject: RE: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question


    > My opinion, but could be wrong (or incomplete).
    >
    >
    >
    > The Sporty's unit is an Artificial Horizon/Attitude Indicator with an
    > inclinometer mounted on it. It probably does not have the canted gyro; I
    > don't see how it could, and still show accurate pitch information under
    all
    > conditions.
    >
    > The old Turn And Bank instruments also did not have the canted gyro. They
    > were essentially an AH without the pitch information.
    >
    > The newer Turn Coordinator instruments have the canted gyro so that they
    can
    > better (marginally better) function as an emergency replacement during an
    AH
    > failure, by being more sensitive to initial rate of change in roll
    > associated with a change in pitch (did I say that right?!).
    >
    > With the electric AI, which makes a vastly better alternative to a failed
    > vacuum AI, you get both pitch and roll information. If you are actually
    > slipping or skidding, the superimposed slip-skid ball will still show
    that.
    > So my take is that you have gained the additional (vastly better) pitch
    > information, without giving up and roll or slip-skid information.
    >
    > On top of that, you get a failed-gyro flag, that does not disappear until
    > the rotor is actually up to full speed; you get internal lighting; you get
    > caging capability, in case you are practicing maneuvers that can bang your
    > gyro around; and you get a gyro unit that is most likely better made than
    > the original one in your plane.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of Kerry Muller
    > Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:03 AM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Sporty's backup AI - question
    >
    >
    >
    > One thing that I wonder about with Sporty's backup AI ... It is
    > approved to completely take the place of the turn indicator but it
    > seems to me that it operates just like an AI with a turn coordinator
    > stuck on it. So I'm guessing for example, that if you were to slip
    > around a turn with wings relatively level, a turn indicator would
    > show it whereas an AI would not. I think it has something to do with
    > the gyro being canted in a turn indicator.
    >
    > So with Sporty's backup AI, do you lose the functionality of the turn
    > indicator?
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rellihan" <rellihan@r...>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > I have one on order, but they claim it won't arrive until March
    > (delayed
    > > Christmas present to myself). The demand for these has been
    > phenomenal.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: bac-mail-bounces@b...
    > > [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@b...] On Behalf Of Greg MacPherson
    > > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:12 PM
    > > To: bac-mail@b...
    > > Subject: [BAC-Mail] Sporty's backup AI
    > >
    > > We are interested in any information from someone who has used the
    > Sporty's
    > > backup AI.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Greg MacPherson, N18996
    > >
    > > 890 West End Avenue, #11C
    > >
    > > New York, NY 10025
    > >
    > > t 212-316-4590
    > >
    > > c 917-679-0565
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > BAC-Mail mailing list
    > > BAC-Mail@b...
    > > http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    >
    >
    > * Visit your group "musketeermail
    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.
    >
    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    > <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
    >
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    >
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    series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
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    >
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