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Thread: [inbox] C24 Sierra landing gear

  1. #1

    [inbox] C24 Sierra landing gear

    Craig

    I have an 80 C24R - fantastic plane all round if the 120+ kts speed does not
    bother you. The
    gear is like any other retract gear - sometimes painful, most times not. I
    have had the blinking light
    problem - hydraulic pump / leak - yes costly but no other problems. The
    previous owner had a (nose) gear up landing when it failed - it is a complex
    mechanism as it not only folds up, it turns flat - sideways as it does. I
    agree with comments that good maintenance and knowledge is the key.

    There likely are more gear nose gear failures due to this fact but don't let
    it deter you from the seeing
    the many, many other positive attributes - my plane has had one of these in
    25 yrs and I'm sure many other retracts are the same or worse. It WILL cost
    more no doubt but I would never trade to another plane over it.

    Ed Fitchett
    C-GBTC
    Toronto, Canada

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "craigmaccallum" <cmacc@losinc.com>
    To: <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:28 PM
    Subject: [inbox] [musketeermail] Re: C24 Sierra landing gear


    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "trymyturkey_458"
    <emperorcharlesv@y...> wrote:
    >
    > One of the a/c on my purchase radar is the C24R. Great cabin, 2
    doors,
    > good build quality, reasonable cruise/fuel burn. I'm a little
    > concerned about gear reliability, especially with that nose gear. I
    > was wondering if some of you Sierra drivers could share your
    > experiences with me -- costs at annual, dispatch reliability, etc.
    >
    > The owner of my FBO was trying to talk me out of retracts, because
    of
    > all the maintenance bugaboos he saw. I agree that fixed and welded
    > gear is a lot less complex and almost certainly cheaper. Still,
    > Sierra's meet a lot of my mission requirements. Frankly, I'm more
    > concerned about reliability. How often could I expect a Sierra to be
    > in the shop for gear-related problems? (and what do those problems
    > cost??!!?!?)
    >
    > Also, if any of you Sierra owners are in the Philadelphia region,
    I'd
    > love to check out a Sierra firsthand (and even beg a ride if you're
    so
    > inclined).
    >

    I'm a little surprised to hear so many Sierra owners singing the
    praises of its gear system - to me, it was a necessary evil in order
    to get some other desirable attributes, such as that great big
    baggage door. (You say you like that the Sierra has two doors? How
    much better do you like it, realizing that it actually has three?)
    And evil it was, at first - I had a chronic case of the blinking red
    gear lights for the first two years I had the plane (starting from
    Fall 2001) and culminating in a scare in which I had to cycle the
    gear multiple times to get three greens. I had to work on several
    different things to bring it under control (costs are to my best
    recollection):
    - a leaking hydraulic line under the cabin floor that had corroded in
    contact with some SCAT tubing: $1200;
    - a bum hydraulic pressure switch mounted on the least reachable
    place on the gear motor that you can possibly imagine: $800 plus
    labor;
    - a bum replacement hydraulic pressure switch: replaced under
    warranty, got off easy, just had to pay shipping;
    - a LH actuator cylinder that leaked internally, and got rebuilt
    three different times - once each by two different mechanics, neither
    of whom did it properly, at $300 apiece, and once by yours truly, who
    finally got it right.
    - an airspeed switch that was removed and serviced, probably
    unnecessarily: $200
    - a nosegear actuator cylinder that got rebuilt, and this time it
    only took one try: $200.

    A thousand here, a few hundred there, pretty soon we're talking real
    money! Plus there's the substantial uptick in your insurance cost.
    The good news is that it's worked pretty well without any further
    work for the last two years.

    But enough about my troubles, let's talk about other peoples'! My
    plane's nosegear collapsed at least once before I owned it, and the
    gear hydraulic motor was replaced more than once, as well. Nosegear
    collapse is a pretty well-known foible of these airplanes, and it
    necessitates not just a new prop, but the teardown of the engine's
    accessory case, too. Usually the trouble is traced to a gear rigging
    problem, so at annual, I have the rigging and microswitches examined
    ever so carefully.

    Are Sierras worse than other retractables? I have no idea - I would
    think probably not, since their retract system is one of the simpler
    ones. Single-engine Cessnas are worse than average, early Armstrong-
    system Mooneys are better than average, none are immune from
    problems. If you must go for a retractable, go and God bless, but
    just keep in mind that a Grumman Tiger is just about as fast as a
    Sierra, and has just about as much useful load, and all with down-and-
    welded landing gear and a constant-pitch prop.

    Craig MacCallum
    Sierra N525SB
    Montclair, NJ







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  2. #2

    [inbox] C24 Sierra landing gear

    I have a 1975 Sierra and the previous owner landed it
    with the nose gear up. I do not know why. But damage
    was extremely small . They replaced the left flap, the
    steps and they installed a 3 blade prop after the
    engine got taken care of based on the sudden stoppage.
    The nose wheel casting ) magnesium) had some scrapes
    because that's what was the skid that took the brunt
    of the landing. The owner then used the opportunity to
    replace the compression rings in the cylinders and
    performed all other maintenance that would make sense
    because of the event.

    I like retracts, had a Mooney 231 before this and
    nothwithstanding the donuts issue I prefer it.

    HarryR.
    --- Ed Fitchett <efitchett@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    > Craig
    >
    > I have an 80 C24R - fantastic plane all round if the
    > 120+ kts speed does not
    > bother you. The
    > gear is like any other retract gear - sometimes
    > painful, most times not. I
    > have had the blinking light
    > problem - hydraulic pump / leak - yes costly but no
    > other problems. The
    > previous owner had a (nose) gear up landing when it
    > failed - it is a complex
    > mechanism as it not only folds up, it turns flat -
    > sideways as it does. I
    > agree with comments that good maintenance and
    > knowledge is the key.
    >
    > There likely are more gear nose gear failures due to
    > this fact but don't let
    > it deter you from the seeing
    > the many, many other positive attributes - my plane
    > has had one of these in
    > 25 yrs and I'm sure many other retracts are the same
    > or worse. It WILL cost
    > more no doubt but I would never trade to another
    > plane over it.
    >
    > Ed Fitchett
    > C-GBTC
    > Toronto, Canada
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "craigmaccallum" <cmacc@losinc.com>
    > To: <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:28 PM
    > Subject: [inbox] [musketeermail] Re: C24 Sierra
    > landing gear
    >
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com,
    > "trymyturkey_458"
    > <emperorcharlesv@y...> wrote:
    > >
    > > One of the a/c on my purchase radar is the C24R.
    > Great cabin, 2
    > doors,
    > > good build quality, reasonable cruise/fuel burn.
    > I'm a little
    > > concerned about gear reliability, especially with
    > that nose gear. I
    > > was wondering if some of you Sierra drivers could
    > share your
    > > experiences with me -- costs at annual, dispatch
    > reliability, etc.
    > >
    > > The owner of my FBO was trying to talk me out of
    > retracts, because
    > of
    > > all the maintenance bugaboos he saw. I agree that
    > fixed and welded
    > > gear is a lot less complex and almost certainly
    > cheaper. Still,
    > > Sierra's meet a lot of my mission requirements.
    > Frankly, I'm more
    > > concerned about reliability. How often could I
    > expect a Sierra to be
    > > in the shop for gear-related problems? (and what
    > do those problems
    > > cost??!!?!?)
    > >
    > > Also, if any of you Sierra owners are in the
    > Philadelphia region,
    > I'd
    > > love to check out a Sierra firsthand (and even beg
    > a ride if you're
    > so
    > > inclined).
    > >
    >
    > I'm a little surprised to hear so many Sierra owners
    > singing the
    > praises of its gear system - to me, it was a
    > necessary evil in order
    > to get some other desirable attributes, such as that
    > great big
    > baggage door. (You say you like that the Sierra has
    > two doors? How
    > much better do you like it, realizing that it
    > actually has three?)
    > And evil it was, at first - I had a chronic case of
    > the blinking red
    > gear lights for the first two years I had the plane
    > (starting from
    > Fall 2001) and culminating in a scare in which I had
    > to cycle the
    > gear multiple times to get three greens. I had to
    > work on several
    > different things to bring it under control (costs
    > are to my best
    > recollection):
    > - a leaking hydraulic line under the cabin floor
    > that had corroded in
    > contact with some SCAT tubing: $1200;
    > - a bum hydraulic pressure switch mounted on the
    > least reachable
    > place on the gear motor that you can possibly
    > imagine: $800 plus
    > labor;
    > - a bum replacement hydraulic pressure switch:
    > replaced under
    > warranty, got off easy, just had to pay shipping;
    > - a LH actuator cylinder that leaked internally, and
    > got rebuilt
    > three different times - once each by two different
    > mechanics, neither
    > of whom did it properly, at $300 apiece, and once by
    > yours truly, who
    > finally got it right.
    > - an airspeed switch that was removed and serviced,
    > probably
    > unnecessarily: $200
    > - a nosegear actuator cylinder that got rebuilt, and
    > this time it
    > only took one try: $200.
    >
    > A thousand here, a few hundred there, pretty soon
    > we're talking real
    > money! Plus there's the substantial uptick in your
    > insurance cost.
    > The good news is that it's worked pretty well
    > without any further
    > work for the last two years.
    >
    > But enough about my troubles, let's talk about other
    > peoples'! My
    > plane's nosegear collapsed at least once before I
    > owned it, and the
    > gear hydraulic motor was replaced more than once, as
    > well. Nosegear
    > collapse is a pretty well-known foible of these
    > airplanes, and it
    > necessitates not just a new prop, but the teardown
    > of the engine's
    > accessory case, too. Usually the trouble is traced
    > to a gear rigging
    > problem, so at annual, I have the rigging and
    > microswitches examined
    > ever so carefully.
    >
    > Are Sierras worse than other retractables? I have no
    > idea - I would
    > think probably not, since their retract system is
    > one of the simpler
    > ones. Single-engine Cessnas are worse than average,
    > early Armstrong-
    > system Mooneys are better than average, none are
    > immune from
    > problems. If you must go for a retractable, go and
    > God bless, but
    > just keep in mind that a Grumman Tiger is just about
    > as fast as a
    > Sierra, and has just about as much useful load, and
    > all with down-and-
    > welded landing gear and a constant-pitch prop.
    >
    > Craig MacCallum
    > Sierra N525SB
    > Montclair, NJ
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club
    > for the Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


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  3. #3
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth corcoran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Braintree and Cape Cod, Massachusetts,
    Posts
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    [inbox] C24 Sierra landing gear

    Ed Fitchett should have added that he has one of the nicest Sierras in existance.
    Tom Corcoran

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ed Fitchett <efitchett@sympatico.ca>
    To: Musketeer Mail <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>; craigmaccallum <cmacc@losinc.com>
    Sent: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:14:54 -0500
    Subject: Re: [inbox] [musketeermail] Re: C24 Sierra landing gear


    Craig

    I have an 80 C24R - fantastic plane all round if the 120+ kts speed does not
    bother you. The
    gear is like any other retract gear - sometimes painful, most times not. I
    have had the blinking light
    problem - hydraulic pump / leak - yes costly but no other problems. The
    previous owner had a (nose) gear up landing when it failed - it is a complex
    mechanism as it not only folds up, it turns flat - sideways as it does. I
    agree with comments that good maintenance and knowledge is the key.

    There likely are more gear nose gear failures due to this fact but don't let
    it deter you from the seeing
    the many, many other positive attributes - my plane has had one of these in
    25 yrs and I'm sure many other retracts are the same or worse. It WILL cost
    more no doubt but I would never trade to another plane over it.

    Ed Fitchett
    C-GBTC
    Toronto, Canada

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "craigmaccallum" <cmacc@losinc.com>
    To: <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:28 PM
    Subject: [inbox] [musketeermail] Re: C24 Sierra landing gear


    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "trymyturkey_458"
    <emperorcharlesv@y...> wrote:
    >
    > One of the a/c on my purchase radar is the C24R. Great cabin, 2
    doors,
    > good build quality, reasonable cruise/fuel burn. I'm a little
    > concerned about gear reliability, especially with that nose gear. I
    > was wondering if some of you Sierra drivers could share your
    > experiences with me -- costs at annual, dispatch reliability, etc.
    >
    > The owner of my FBO was trying to talk me out of retracts, because
    of
    > all the maintenance bugaboos he saw. I agree that fixed and welded
    > gear is a lot less complex and almost certainly cheaper. Still,
    > Sierra's meet a lot of my mission requirements. Frankly, I'm more
    > concerned about reliability. How often could I expect a Sierra to be
    > in the shop for gear-related problems? (and what do those problems
    > cost??!!?!?)
    >
    > Also, if any of you Sierra owners are in the Philadelphia region,
    I'd
    > love to check out a Sierra firsthand (and even beg a ride if you're
    so
    > inclined).
    >

    I'm a little surprised to hear so many Sierra owners singing the
    praises of its gear system - to me, it was a necessary evil in order
    to get some other desirable attributes, such as that great big
    baggage door. (You say you like that the Sierra has two doors? How
    much better do you like it, realizing that it actually has three?)
    And evil it was, at first - I had a chronic case of the blinking red
    gear lights for the first two years I had the plane (starting from
    Fall 2001) and culminating in a scare in which I had to cycle the
    gear multiple times to get three greens. I had to work on several
    different things to bring it under control (costs are to my best
    recollection):
    - a leaking hydraulic line under the cabin floor that had corroded in
    contact with some SCAT tubing: $1200;
    - a bum hydraulic pressure switch mounted on the least reachable
    place on the gear motor that you can possibly imagine: $800 plus
    labor;
    - a bum replacement hydraulic pressure switch: replaced under
    warranty, got off easy, just had to pay shipping;
    - a LH actuator cylinder that leaked internally, and got rebuilt
    three different times - once each by two different mechanics, neither
    of whom did it properly, at $300 apiece, and once by yours truly, who
    finally got it right.
    - an airspeed switch that was removed and serviced, probably
    unnecessarily: $200
    - a nosegear actuator cylinder that got rebuilt, and this time it
    only took one try: $200.

    A thousand here, a few hundred there, pretty soon we're talking real
    money! Plus there's the substantial uptick in your insurance cost.
    The good news is that it's worked pretty well without any further
    work for the last two years.

    But enough about my troubles, let's talk about other peoples'! My
    plane's nosegear collapsed at least once before I owned it, and the
    gear hydraulic motor was replaced more than once, as well. Nosegear
    collapse is a pretty well-known foible of these airplanes, and it
    necessitates not just a new prop, but the teardown of the engine's
    accessory case, too. Usually the trouble is traced to a gear rigging
    problem, so at annual, I have the rigging and microswitches examined
    ever so carefully.

    Are Sierras worse than other retractables? I have no idea - I would
    think probably not, since their retract system is one of the simpler
    ones. Single-engine Cessnas are worse than average, early Armstrong-
    system Mooneys are better than average, none are immune from
    problems. If you must go for a retractable, go and God bless, but
    just keep in mind that a Grumman Tiger is just about as fast as a
    Sierra, and has just about as much useful load, and all with down-and-
    welded landing gear and a constant-pitch prop.

    Craig MacCallum
    Sierra N525SB
    Montclair, NJ







    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links










    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links






    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  4. #4

    [inbox] C24 Sierra landing gear

    I also have a 1975 Sierra that had a nose gear up
    landing by the previous owner, caused by a nut that
    wasn't cotter pinned, backed off, and jammed the gear
    up. I had a real fight to get the nose gear down once,
    after it was turned past the limit by a guy towing it
    with a converted golf cart. This cracked the steering
    link that turns the gear as it is retracted into the
    wheelwell, and the link broke on retraction, jamming
    the gear up. After all kinds of stalls, dives, slips
    etc., we were able to work the gear down and locked,
    but at 90 degrees.(Jet Blue) Thanks to our superb
    trailing link design, it castered on landing, with no
    trouble at all. I am impressed with the common sense,
    basic mechanical aspects and strength of the Sierra
    gear, and really believe that poor maintenance or
    carelessness is the major cause of Sierra gear
    incidents. I also wonder if turning past the limits
    while towing isn't an overlooked hidden cause of
    trouble. The repair station that does all my
    maintenance, refuses to tow any aircraft with a
    motorized vehicle. Its all done by hand. I believe the
    Sierra gear is more sound and trouble free than most,
    and is definitly stronger. As for gear up landings, I
    would rather be in a Sierra than any other. I made an
    intentional gear up in mine, and the lack of damage
    was unbelievable. What a tank. one flap hinge, both
    steps, nose gear casting, belly skin, prop. engine
    ispection and antennas. We lifted it up, let the gear
    down, installed a spare prop, and ferried it to the
    repair station as easy as that. Its actually a better
    plane now, than it was. Just my two cents worth on
    Sierra gear.

    Dan Kirby, Sierra N9299S

    --- Harry Roussard <hroussar@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I have a 1975 Sierra and the previous owner landed
    > it
    > with the nose gear up. I do not know why. But damage
    > was extremely small . They replaced the left flap,
    > the
    > steps and they installed a 3 blade prop after the
    > engine got taken care of based on the sudden
    > stoppage.
    > The nose wheel casting ) magnesium) had some scrapes
    > because that's what was the skid that took the brunt
    > of the landing. The owner then used the opportunity
    > to
    > replace the compression rings in the cylinders and
    > performed all other maintenance that would make
    > sense
    > because of the event.
    >
    > I like retracts, had a Mooney 231 before this and
    > nothwithstanding the donuts issue I prefer it.
    >
    > HarryR.
    > --- Ed Fitchett <efitchett@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    > > Craig
    > >
    > > I have an 80 C24R - fantastic plane all round if
    > the
    > > 120+ kts speed does not
    > > bother you. The
    > > gear is like any other retract gear - sometimes
    > > painful, most times not. I
    > > have had the blinking light
    > > problem - hydraulic pump / leak - yes costly but
    > no
    > > other problems. The
    > > previous owner had a (nose) gear up landing when
    > it
    > > failed - it is a complex
    > > mechanism as it not only folds up, it turns flat -
    > > sideways as it does. I
    > > agree with comments that good maintenance and
    > > knowledge is the key.
    > >
    > > There likely are more gear nose gear failures due
    > to
    > > this fact but don't let
    > > it deter you from the seeing
    > > the many, many other positive attributes - my
    > plane
    > > has had one of these in
    > > 25 yrs and I'm sure many other retracts are the
    > same
    > > or worse. It WILL cost
    > > more no doubt but I would never trade to another
    > > plane over it.
    > >
    > > Ed Fitchett
    > > C-GBTC
    > > Toronto, Canada
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "craigmaccallum" <cmacc@losinc.com>
    > > To: <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:28 PM
    > > Subject: [inbox] [musketeermail] Re: C24 Sierra
    > > landing gear
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com,
    > > "trymyturkey_458"
    > > <emperorcharlesv@y...> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > One of the a/c on my purchase radar is the C24R.
    > > Great cabin, 2
    > > doors,
    > > > good build quality, reasonable cruise/fuel burn.
    > > I'm a little
    > > > concerned about gear reliability, especially
    > with
    > > that nose gear. I
    > > > was wondering if some of you Sierra drivers
    > could
    > > share your
    > > > experiences with me -- costs at annual, dispatch
    > > reliability, etc.
    > > >
    > > > The owner of my FBO was trying to talk me out of
    > > retracts, because
    > > of
    > > > all the maintenance bugaboos he saw. I agree
    > that
    > > fixed and welded
    > > > gear is a lot less complex and almost certainly
    > > cheaper. Still,
    > > > Sierra's meet a lot of my mission requirements.
    > > Frankly, I'm more
    > > > concerned about reliability. How often could I
    > > expect a Sierra to be
    > > > in the shop for gear-related problems? (and what
    > > do those problems
    > > > cost??!!?!?)
    > > >
    > > > Also, if any of you Sierra owners are in the
    > > Philadelphia region,
    > > I'd
    > > > love to check out a Sierra firsthand (and even
    > beg
    > > a ride if you're
    > > so
    > > > inclined).
    > > >
    > >
    > > I'm a little surprised to hear so many Sierra
    > owners
    > > singing the
    > > praises of its gear system - to me, it was a
    > > necessary evil in order
    > > to get some other desirable attributes, such as
    > that
    > > great big
    > > baggage door. (You say you like that the Sierra
    > has
    > > two doors? How
    > > much better do you like it, realizing that it
    > > actually has three?)
    > > And evil it was, at first - I had a chronic case
    > of
    > > the blinking red
    > > gear lights for the first two years I had the
    > plane
    > > (starting from
    > > Fall 2001) and culminating in a scare in which I
    > had
    > > to cycle the
    > > gear multiple times to get three greens. I had to
    > > work on several
    > > different things to bring it under control (costs
    > > are to my best
    > > recollection):
    > > - a leaking hydraulic line under the cabin floor
    > > that had corroded in
    > > contact with some SCAT tubing: $1200;
    > > - a bum hydraulic pressure switch mounted on the
    > > least reachable
    > > place on the gear motor that you can possibly
    > > imagine: $800 plus
    > > labor;
    > > - a bum replacement hydraulic pressure switch:
    > > replaced under
    > > warranty, got off easy, just had to pay shipping;
    > > - a LH actuator cylinder that leaked internally,
    > and
    > > got rebuilt
    > > three different times - once each by two different
    > > mechanics, neither
    > > of whom did it properly, at $300 apiece, and once
    > by
    > > yours truly, who
    > > finally got it right.
    > > - an airspeed switch that was removed and
    > serviced,
    > > probably
    > > unnecessarily: $200
    > > - a nosegear actuator cylinder that got rebuilt,
    > and
    > > this time it
    > > only took one try: $200.
    > >
    > > A thousand here, a few hundred there, pretty soon
    > > we're talking real
    > > money! Plus there's the substantial uptick in
    > your
    > > insurance cost.
    > > The good news is that it's worked pretty well
    > > without any further
    > > work for the last two years.
    > >
    > > But enough about my troubles, let's talk about
    > other
    > > peoples'! My
    > > plane's nosegear collapsed at least once before I
    > > owned it, and the
    > > gear hydraulic motor was replaced more than once,
    > as
    > > well. Nosegear
    > > collapse is a pretty well-known foible of these
    > > airplanes, and it
    > > necessitates not just a new prop, but the teardown
    > > of the engine's
    > > accessory case, too. Usually the trouble is
    > traced
    > > to a gear rigging
    > > problem, so at annual, I have the rigging and
    > > microswitches examined
    > > ever so carefully.
    > >
    > > Are Sierras worse than other retractables? I have
    > no
    > > idea - I would
    > > think probably not, since their retract system is
    > > one of the simpler
    >
    === message truncated ===


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