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Thread: Conditional Annuals

  1. #1

    Conditional Annuals

    >I must disagree with your post. There is no such animal as a
    >"conditional annual".

    <snip>

    >You either complete an annual inspection or you don't. A mechanic must
    >sign for what he has done. If the annual inspection is complied with by
    >him then he must sign it off. If the aircraft had "Unairworthy"
    >discrepencies found during that annual he can refer to them as the reason
    >for the negative statement entered in
    >the logs (This aircraft has been inspected IAW an annual inspection and
    >was found NOT airworthy due to the following discrepencies: 1-''''''''',
    >2-'''''''' ) or (This aircraft was inspected IAW an anual inspection
    >and was found NOT airworthy. A list of discrepencies was given to the
    >owner.)

    This issue is covered in FAR 43.11 "Content, form, and disposition of
    records for inspections conducted under Parts 91..."

    43.11 (4-5)

    (4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found to be
    airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a similarly
    worded statement - "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in
    accordance with (insert type) inspection and was determined to be in
    airworthy condition."

    (5) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is not approved for
    return to service because of needed maintenance, noncompliance with
    applicable specifications, airworthiness directives, or other approved
    data, the following or a similarly worded statement - "I certify that this
    aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and
    a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been
    provided for the aircraft owner or operator."

    >Either signoff is perfectly legal. No where do the FARS say I cannot
    >enter a discrepency in any aircraft log. The industry standard is to
    >provide a list. Some hand the list seperately. Some who prefer to
    >protect their arses for the next 18 years against agressive attorneys
    >will put the list IN the Legal Record. Remember the owner can chuck your
    >list if it's not in the logs and tell another A&P that he was told he
    >only needed new brake pads to make her air worthy when in reality he was
    >given a 10 item list of grounding items. Your file copy of that list is
    >useless in court. If you made the owner sign your copy oif the list it
    >gives you a 50/50 shot of saving you home and license in court. If you
    >put the list in the logs the next A&P knows for sure what needs to be
    >done and will then have to sign his ticket for that work. If the law is
    >followed to the "T" the list of discrepencies when completed will have
    >to be entered in the log anyway by whomever complete the work.

    While I agree with Wes that one must be vigilant in protecting one's butt
    (and certificates) in the increasingly litigious environment today, one is
    not empowered to declare in the logs that an airplane is "unairworthy" in
    any way except that an inspection has been performed and a list of
    unairworthy items was given to the owner.

    We as mechanics are just the hired hands that assist owners in meeting
    their airworthiness responsibilities. Before each flight the owners must
    assure themselves that the plane is airworthy, and we get hired to
    periodically help the owners know that things outside the scope of a
    pre-flight are in conformity with the Type Design, and in a condition for
    safe operation.

    As an inspector, I can (and do) find that an aircraft has discrepancies
    that prevent me from stating that it is airworthy if the AR(R)OW paperwork
    is not in the plane. This doesn't mean that the owner can't pull it out of
    his flight bag and display it as required when he cranks up to leave. We
    have 2 levels of criteria to inspect for during an annual. #1) Does the
    plane meet its Type Design or properly altered condition? -- Which means is
    it as it left the factory, just like the Type Certificate was approved by
    the FAA, subject to any legal and documented repairs or alterations; which
    is a Yes or No question. It can not be ALMOST meeting its Type Design and
    be signed off as airworthy. #2) Is it in a condition for safe operation?
    -- Which means are the wear items in suitable condition for safe
    operation? Will that tire hold air even though the tread is worn off, are
    the spark plugs within the manufacturer's limitations for electrode wear?, etc.

    There is no gray area in the items covered by #1, there can be things that
    are open to interpretation and subjective judgement in item #2.

    In every case, it is up the the owner/pilot to satisfy themselves BEFORE
    EACH FLIGHT if the plane is currently airworthy, regardless of what the
    logs say.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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  2. #2

    Conditional Annuals

    Wes, I understand your concern, but Bob Steward is (as usual) on the
    money in his references. Further boiling down what Bob Steward
    wrote are the following words straight from the FAA Inspectors
    Handbook 8300.10:

    • If the person conducting the inspection finds the aircraft to be
    unairworthy, appropriate entries must be made in the aircraft
    maintenance records. The owner/operator must be furnished with a
    list of discrepancies or unairworthy items.
    [Note that the list is a separate document. Wes is totally correct
    that the owner could go to another mechanic and lie that his brake
    pads were the only problem. However, the owner has to produce the
    list of discrepancies written by the first inspector. Seeing an log
    entry like this would be a HUGE red flag to any mechanic and no
    matter what was on the list provided by the owner, the second
    mechanic will most likely at least talk to the first one!]

    • The owner/operator must ensure that the maintenance records
    contain proper entries in accordance with FAR § 91.417. The owner/
    operator must correct discrepancies found during the inspection
    before the aircraft is returned to service. [Like the other Bob
    said!]

    Another person posted that "I don't feel that an IA can determine
    what is "airworthy" as it seems to go beyond his/her authority."
    However, note the last 3 words of the specific wording that the FAR
    gives the IA in 43.11(4):

    (4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found to
    be airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a
    similarly worded statement--"I certify that this aircraft has been
    inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and was
    determined to be in airworthy condition."

    I'm not sure about Canadian regs and what is described as
    a "conditional annual" for our friends north of the border, so can't
    respond to those posts.

    There are all sorts of old wives tales about annuals, but posting
    this info on the web is one thing the FAA has been pretty good at.

    Bob Swaim
    A&P, Aero Eng
    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, Bob Steward <n76lima@m...>
    wrote:
    >
    >
    > >I must disagree with your post. There is no such animal as a
    > >"conditional annual".
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > >You either complete an annual inspection or you don't. A mechanic
    must
    > >sign for what he has done. If the annual inspection is complied
    with by
    > >him then he must sign it off. If the aircraft had "Unairworthy"
    > >discrepencies found during that annual he can refer to them as
    the reason
    > >for the negative statement entered in
    > >the logs (This aircraft has been inspected IAW an annual
    inspection and
    > >was found NOT airworthy due to the following discrepencies: 1-
    ''''''''',
    > >2-'''''''' ) or (This aircraft was inspected IAW an anual
    inspection
    > >and was found NOT airworthy. A list of discrepencies was given to
    the
    > >owner.)
    >
    > This issue is covered in FAR 43.11 "Content, form, and disposition
    of
    > records for inspections conducted under Parts 91..."
    >
    > 43.11 (4-5)
    >
    > (4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found
    to be
    > airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a
    similarly
    > worded statement - "I certify that this aircraft has been
    inspected in
    > accordance with (insert type) inspection and was determined to be
    in
    > airworthy condition."
    >
    > (5) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is not
    approved for
    > return to service because of needed maintenance, noncompliance
    with
    > applicable specifications, airworthiness directives, or other
    approved
    > data, the following or a similarly worded statement - "I certify
    that this
    > aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type)
    inspection and
    > a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has
    been
    > provided for the aircraft owner or operator."
    >
    > >Either signoff is perfectly legal. No where do the FARS say I
    cannot
    > >enter a discrepency in any aircraft log. The industry standard is
    to
    > >provide a list. Some hand the list seperately. Some who prefer to
    > >protect their arses for the next 18 years against agressive
    attorneys
    > >will put the list IN the Legal Record. Remember the owner can
    chuck your
    > >list if it's not in the logs and tell another A&P that he was
    told he
    > >only needed new brake pads to make her air worthy when in reality
    he was
    > >given a 10 item list of grounding items. Your file copy of that
    list is
    > >useless in court. If you made the owner sign your copy oif the
    list it
    > >gives you a 50/50 shot of saving you home and license in court.
    If you
    > >put the list in the logs the next A&P knows for sure what needs
    to be
    > >done and will then have to sign his ticket for that work. If the
    law is
    > >followed to the "T" the list of discrepencies when completed will
    have
    > >to be entered in the log anyway by whomever complete the work.
    >
    > While I agree with Wes that one must be vigilant in protecting
    one's butt
    > (and certificates) in the increasingly litigious environment
    today, one is
    > not empowered to declare in the logs that an airplane
    is "unairworthy" in
    > any way except that an inspection has been performed and a list of
    > unairworthy items was given to the owner.
    >
    > We as mechanics are just the hired hands that assist owners in
    meeting
    > their airworthiness responsibilities. Before each flight the
    owners must
    > assure themselves that the plane is airworthy, and we get hired to
    > periodically help the owners know that things outside the scope of
    a
    > pre-flight are in conformity with the Type Design, and in a
    condition for
    > safe operation.
    >
    > As an inspector, I can (and do) find that an aircraft has
    discrepancies
    > that prevent me from stating that it is airworthy if the AR(R)OW
    paperwork
    > is not in the plane. This doesn't mean that the owner can't pull
    it out of
    > his flight bag and display it as required when he cranks up to
    leave. We
    > have 2 levels of criteria to inspect for during an annual. #1)
    Does the
    > plane meet its Type Design or properly altered condition? -- Which
    means is
    > it as it left the factory, just like the Type Certificate was
    approved by
    > the FAA, subject to any legal and documented repairs or
    alterations; which
    > is a Yes or No question. It can not be ALMOST meeting its Type
    Design and
    > be signed off as airworthy. #2) Is it in a condition for safe
    operation?
    > -- Which means are the wear items in suitable condition for safe
    > operation? Will that tire hold air even though the tread is worn
    off, are
    > the spark plugs within the manufacturer's limitations for
    electrode wear?, etc.
    >
    > There is no gray area in the items covered by #1, there can be
    things that
    > are open to interpretation and subjective judgement in item #2.
    >
    > In every case, it is up the the owner/pilot to satisfy themselves
    BEFORE
    > EACH FLIGHT if the plane is currently airworthy, regardless of
    what the
    > logs say.
    >
    > Bob Steward, A&P IA
    > Birmingham, AL
    >







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    www.beechaeroclub.org


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