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Thread: C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?

  1. #1

    C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?

    I know that the two ballast weight part numbers are 169-440005-119 and -207.
    The -119 weighs 22 pounds, and the -207 weighs ten pounds.
    My Sierra has the -207 installed (ten pounds).

    There is a lot of text about this on the BAC website. Search BAC (and the
    Musketeermail Archives) for 'ballast weight'. Here is a partial paste of
    one of the FAQs:
    ***********************
    Larry Perry:

    I pulled out the airframe logbook, and the second item entered under "Major
    Alterations", six months after N65503 left the factory, is
    the following notation:

    7/3/84 Install ballast weight P/N 169-44000-207 in tail.


    Editor's Note:

    There is a digit missing in the part number. The correct PN is
    169-440005-207. There is one available from RAPID for $149. Another number is 169-440005-119; none available from
    RAPID.

    Both of these may well be available from salvage yards. Parts applicability is:

    169-44000-119, 22 pounds: MB1 through MB557; MC2 through MC150

    169-44000-207, 10 pounds: MC191 through MC536, except MC503.
    NOTE: The later parts book shows this -207 unit being installed on most
    Sierras and Sports through the end of production.

    **********************
    There is no indication of a factory installation of either of these weights
    on any Model 23 Musketeers and Sundowners. It sounds like Larry Perry may have a copy of a 337 that includes this, in his aircraft records; or he
    could get a copy from the FAA for his airframe. If a copy is sent to me, I
    will post it on BAC.

    CAUTION! Don't install these ballast weights lightly! They may not sound
    very heavy, but they are acting on a long arm in the envelope. I'll be
    amazed if the FAA did not require added flight testing for the installation
    of one that was not factory approved. Though I suppose if the plane is
    re-weighed and remains within the certified envelope, it ought to pass
    muster. Certainly some calculations should be done before selecting the
    appropriate weight.

    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Steve King
    Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:35 PM
    To: perrysellars; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [musketeermail] C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?

    When I checked with Beech parts, they said that the ballast weights are not approved for Sundowners (at least not for mine, a 79, M-2130). I'm hoping to install one anyway someday (I'm about to install a Skytec lightweight starter, and don't know yet whether or not I'll want the 10 or 22 pound weight--haven't done the math.) I'm assuming the way to do it will be to get a field approval from the FAA FSDO.

    Bob Steward and/or Mike Rellian:

    Have others done this (installed the tail bulkhead ballast on an airplane
    not approved for it)? If so, what approval route did they take? (Also,
    who, and which FSDO?)

    Steve King


    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com on behalf of perrysellars
    Sent: Wed 1/25/2006 2:16 PM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner CG ballast Instructions

    Hello All,

    Thanks for the replies regarding the Foward CG situation we all seem to
    have. I have located the larger of the two weights made by Beech and
    want to install it in my Sundowner.

    Where can I find the Service Instructions or whatever it is I'm looking
    for? I have an A&P that will take care of it for me, just need the
    instructions.

    Don't you just love it when a newbie comes to town?

    Thanks,

    Perry
    N6593R

  2. #2

    C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?

    I have a 10 pound weight and will be installing at my annual.

    The parts catalog calls for these to be installed with three AN4-13
    bolts with an AN960-416 washer (under the head of the bolt, I
    presume), an AN970-4 washer (under the nut??) and a AN365-4 (or
    MS20365) nylon self locking nut. Because of the weight of this
    beast, I am planning on substituting NAS6604-16 bolts for the AN4
    bolts. These are sold by Aircraft Spruce as NAS 1304 "Tension
    Bolts". The reason for the switch is that the NAS6604 is a tension
    rated and fatigue rated fastener. It also has slightly higher
    allowables per MIL-HDBK-5. The -16 is the grip length in 16ths and
    is the closest grip to the grip length of the AN4-13 bolt.

    With three 1/4 inch bolts, the weight should be able to maintain
    attachment under all conditions even a crash.

    A word on installation: If you match drill the holes you can get by
    with a .257 diameter hole. The closer the hole is to the fastener
    diameter, the fastener gives better service.

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Rellihan"
    <rellihan@r...> wrote:
    >
    > I know that the two ballast weight part numbers are 169-440005-119
    and -207.
    > I don't remember which one is which weight; that's not shown in the
    parts
    > book. My understanding is that one is ten pounds, and the other is
    22
    > pounds. My Sierra has the -207 installed.
    >
    > There is a lot of text about this on the BAC website. Search BAC
    (and the
    > Musketeermail Archives) for 'ballast weight'. Here is a partial
    paste of
    > one of the FAQs:
    > ***********************
    > Larry Perry:
    >
    > I pulled out the airframe logbook, and the second item entered
    under "Major
    > Alterations", six months after N65503 left the factory, is
    > the following notation:
    >
    > 7/3/84 Install ballast weight P/N 169-44000-207 in tail.
    >
    >
    > Editor's Note:
    >
    > There is a digit missing in the part number. The correct PN is
    > 169-440005-207. There is one available from RAPID for $149. I don't
    know the
    > weight on this one. Another number is 169-440005-119; none
    available from
    > RAPID.
    >
    > If anyone has time to call RAPID and find out the actual weight
    number on
    > these two parts, please let me know what you find out. Both of
    these may
    > well be available from salvage yards. Parts applicability is:
    >
    > 169-44000-119, 22 pounds: MB1 through MB557; MC2 through MC150
    >
    > 169-44000-207, 10 pounds: MC191 through MC536, except MC503.
    > NOTE: The later parts book shows this -207 unit being installed on
    most
    > Sierras and Sports through the end of production.
    >
    > **********************
    > There is no indication of a factory installation of either of these
    weights
    > on any Model 23 Musketeers and Sundowners. It sounds like Larry
    Perry may
    > have a copy of a 337 that includes this, in his aircraft records;
    or he
    > could get a copy from the FAA for his airframe. If a copy is sent
    to me, I
    > will post it on BAC.
    >
    > CAUTION! Don't install these ballast weights lightly! They may
    not sound
    > very heavy, but they are acting on a long arm in the envelope.
    I'll be
    > amazed if the FAA did not require added flight testing for the
    installation
    > of one that was not factory approved. Though I suppose if the
    plane is
    > re-weighed and remains within the certified envelope, it ought to
    pass
    > muster. Certainly some calculations should be done before
    selecting the
    > appropriate weight. If anyone finds out which PN is which weight,
    please
    > let me know!
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of Steve King
    > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:35 PM
    > To: perrysellars; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [musketeermail] C-23 tail ballast installation-
    Bob/Mike?
    >
    > When I checked with Beech parts, they said that the ballast weights
    are not
    > approved for Sundowners (at least not for mine, a 79, M-2130). I'm
    hoping
    > to install one anyway someday (I'm about to install a Skytec
    lightweight
    > starter, and don't know yet whether or not I'll want the 10 or 22
    pound
    > weight--haven't done the math.) I'm assuming the way to do it will
    be to
    > get a field approval from the FAA FSDO.
    >
    > Bob Steward and/or Mike Rellian:
    >
    > Have others done this (installed the tail bulkhead ballast on an
    airplane
    > not approved for it)? If so, what approval route did they take?
    (Also,
    > who, and which FSDO?)
    >
    > Steve King
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com on behalf of perrysellars
    > Sent: Wed 1/25/2006 2:16 PM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner CG ballast Instructions
    >
    > Hello All,
    >
    > Thanks for the replies regarding the Foward CG situation we all
    seem to
    > have. I have located the larger of the two weights made by Beech
    and
    > want to install it in my Sundowner.
    >
    > Where can I find the Service Instructions or whatever it is I'm
    looking
    > for? I have an A&P that will take care of it for me, just need the
    > instructions.
    >
    > Don't you just love it when a newbie comes to town?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Perry
    > N6593R
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    > * Visit your group "musketeermail
    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.
    >
    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
    subject=Unsubscribe>
    >
    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
    Service
    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
    >
    > _____
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >






    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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  3. #3

    C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?

    I have the 10 # weight in my Sundowner. Was there from several owners
    before so I can not comment on performance changes. I saw it during a
    battery connection cleaning exercise when I removed the rear panel. I also
    use 50# of sand in the baggage compartment for W&B offset and use the
    CO-PILOT palm program to frequently compute W&B. It's amazing what that 50#
    permits you to do in the front seat. You can also model the 10# weight too
    in that program knowing the moment from the install directions. I believe I
    did this a long time ago and it's about equal to the 50# weight which makes
    sense since it's about 5 times further back from the CG.



    Dr Bill

    N9230S 76 Sundowner





    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of ajpcps
    Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:08 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: C-23 tail ballast installation-Bob/Mike?



    I have a 10 pound weight and will be installing at my annual.

    The parts catalog calls for these to be installed with three AN4-13
    bolts with an AN960-416 washer (under the head of the bolt, I
    presume), an AN970-4 washer (under the nut??) and a AN365-4 (or
    MS20365) nylon self locking nut. Because of the weight of this
    beast, I am planning on substituting NAS6604-16 bolts for the AN4
    bolts. These are sold by Aircraft Spruce as NAS 1304 "Tension
    Bolts". The reason for the switch is that the NAS6604 is a tension
    rated and fatigue rated fastener. It also has slightly higher
    allowables per MIL-HDBK-5. The -16 is the grip length in 16ths and
    is the closest grip to the grip length of the AN4-13 bolt.

    With three 1/4 inch bolts, the weight should be able to maintain
    attachment under all conditions even a crash.

    A word on installation: If you match drill the holes you can get by
    with a .257 diameter hole. The closer the hole is to the fastener
    diameter, the fastener gives better service.

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Rellihan"
    <rellihan@r...> wrote:
    >
    > I know that the two ballast weight part numbers are 169-440005-119
    and -207.
    > I don't remember which one is which weight; that's not shown in the
    parts
    > book. My understanding is that one is ten pounds, and the other is
    22
    > pounds. My Sierra has the -207 installed.
    >
    > There is a lot of text about this on the BAC website. Search BAC
    (and the
    > Musketeermail Archives) for 'ballast weight'. Here is a partial
    paste of
    > one of the FAQs:
    > ***********************
    > Larry Perry:
    >
    > I pulled out the airframe logbook, and the second item entered
    under "Major
    > Alterations", six months after N65503 left the factory, is
    > the following notation:
    >
    > 7/3/84 Install ballast weight P/N 169-44000-207 in tail.
    >
    >
    > Editor's Note:
    >
    > There is a digit missing in the part number. The correct PN is
    > 169-440005-207. There is one available from RAPID for $149. I don't
    know the
    > weight on this one. Another number is 169-440005-119; none
    available from
    > RAPID.
    >
    > If anyone has time to call RAPID and find out the actual weight
    number on
    > these two parts, please let me know what you find out. Both of
    these may
    > well be available from salvage yards. Parts applicability is:
    >
    > 169-44000-119, 22 pounds: MB1 through MB557; MC2 through MC150
    >
    > 169-44000-207, 10 pounds: MC191 through MC536, except MC503.
    > NOTE: The later parts book shows this -207 unit being installed on
    most
    > Sierras and Sports through the end of production.
    >
    > **********************
    > There is no indication of a factory installation of either of these
    weights
    > on any Model 23 Musketeers and Sundowners. It sounds like Larry
    Perry may
    > have a copy of a 337 that includes this, in his aircraft records;
    or he
    > could get a copy from the FAA for his airframe. If a copy is sent
    to me, I
    > will post it on BAC.
    >
    > CAUTION! Don't install these ballast weights lightly! They may
    not sound
    > very heavy, but they are acting on a long arm in the envelope.
    I'll be
    > amazed if the FAA did not require added flight testing for the
    installation
    > of one that was not factory approved. Though I suppose if the
    plane is
    > re-weighed and remains within the certified envelope, it ought to
    pass
    > muster. Certainly some calculations should be done before
    selecting the
    > appropriate weight. If anyone finds out which PN is which weight,
    please
    > let me know!
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    > On Behalf Of Steve King
    > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:35 PM
    > To: perrysellars; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [musketeermail] C-23 tail ballast installation-
    Bob/Mike?
    >
    > When I checked with Beech parts, they said that the ballast weights
    are not
    > approved for Sundowners (at least not for mine, a 79, M-2130). I'm
    hoping
    > to install one anyway someday (I'm about to install a Skytec
    lightweight
    > starter, and don't know yet whether or not I'll want the 10 or 22
    pound
    > weight--haven't done the math.) I'm assuming the way to do it will
    be to
    > get a field approval from the FAA FSDO.
    >
    > Bob Steward and/or Mike Rellian:
    >
    > Have others done this (installed the tail bulkhead ballast on an
    airplane
    > not approved for it)? If so, what approval route did they take?
    (Also,
    > who, and which FSDO?)
    >
    > Steve King
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com on behalf of perrysellars
    > Sent: Wed 1/25/2006 2:16 PM
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner CG ballast Instructions
    >
    > Hello All,
    >
    > Thanks for the replies regarding the Foward CG situation we all
    seem to
    > have. I have located the larger of the two weights made by Beech
    and
    > want to install it in my Sundowner.
    >
    > Where can I find the Service Instructions or whatever it is I'm
    looking
    > for? I have an A&P that will take care of it for me, just need the
    > instructions.
    >
    > Don't you just love it when a newbie comes to town?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Perry
    > N6593R
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    > * Visit your group "musketeermail
    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.
    >
    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > <mailto:musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
    subject=Unsubscribe>
    >
    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
    Service
    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
    >
    > _____
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >






    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






    _____

    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



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    _____



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

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    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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