To Rick Kutzner N1472 LimaBean

Rick,
I have had the unfortunate experience of having to rebuild my nose gear.
When we were investigating bearings for purchase we found them in various
ratings from 0 to 3 thousands over. Even a so called matched set had to be
machined to fit properly. We did find an alternate method of holding the
bearings in place. Good Luck

Rick Spann
Sierra N9363S

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Today's Topics:

1. RE: Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460
(Robertson, Steve (Stephen H))
2. Re: No idle? (Bill Howard)
3. RE: [musketeermail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460
(Michael Rellihan)
4. Are all gear housings created equal? (info@avi-online.com)
5. RE: Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460 (Ann and Dan Kirby)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:00:03 -0800
From: "Robertson, Steve (Stephen H)" <STEPHEN.H.ROBERTSON@saic.com>
Subject: RE: [BAC-Mail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460
To: "Dwyer, Bruce" <Bruce.Dwyer@gowlings.com>,
musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
Message-ID:

<B8300BD05DC8FA40B3E8E3503E132C4504F6DDBA@us-oak-ridge-tss.mail.saic.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Bruce,

I don't preheat my IO-360 unless the outside temperature is 25 F or below.
My plane is tied down outside. I use Phillips 20W-50 oil. Before starting, I
move throttle full open, mixture full rich. Then I hit the boost pump for
2-3 seconds. Then I close the throttle to a setting that will normally give
me about 1000 rpm idle. It will usually start within 10-15 seconds of
cranking. Once started, I have no trouble maintaining 1000 RPM. I'm sure it
would idle slower when cold, but I don't operate it that way. After a few
seconds of running, I lean aggressively and keep it that way until runup.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Super III

-----Original Message-----
From: bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org
[mailto:bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:34 AM
To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com; bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
Subject: [BAC-Mail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460


When I start cold (Ottawa, ON is very cold) the engine will not idle below
about 1300-1400 RPM without stalling. We have a Tannis Heater and an engine
cover on the plane and never attempt a start unless the engine oil temp on
the UBG is at least 40 degrees or better. Usually fires up just fine and
runs great once the temps are in the 90's (by the time you get to do the run
up, I will not take off unless the oil temp is 100 or better, just a
personal guess). During the time between 40 and 90 if you pull the power
below 1300 RPM the engine will quit. Almost seems like it is not getting
fuel even with the mixture full rich. I also tried yesterday with the
mixture leaned a bit to prevent the plugs from being fouled and to help warm
the engine a bit faster but same problem. Open the throttle a bit further
and it restarts fine. Any other IO-360 drivers had this problem? My mechanic
says that this is not normal for a fuel injected engine and suspects it may
be related to the Fuel Sending unit or something with the throttle body.

Bruce

C-GMTT


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to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination,
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:25:45 -0800
From: Bill Howard <bhoward@bmi.net>
Subject: [BAC-Mail] Re: No idle?
To: bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org, musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <20060123182545.611571C09A9@hans.bmi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Mon Jan 23 8:33 , 'Dwyer, Bruce' <Bruce.Dwyer@gowlings.com> sent:

When I start cold (Ottawa, ON is very cold) the engine will not idle below
about 1300-1400 RPM without stalling.

--

Hi Bruce -

Have you ever computed density altitude on those cold mornings? You may be
well below sea-level!

As such, there may be no way to get 'rich enough' for that altitude until
you start running a little faster.

My Brand-C manual mentions having to push in the primer occasionally until
the engine is warmed up. I think the atomization is pretty poor at low
speeds (and low air flows at idle) in these big bore engines. So, maybe the
cold air and cold intake tubes are condensing out the fuel unless the engine
is idling pretty fast - what do you think?

On the other hand, you may be adjusted 'too rich.' What does the EGT read?
I'd want that to be well up on the gauge but obviously not beyond peak at
idle (don't know that's even possible!)

So, crank 'er up and slowly reduce the idle speed and play with the Mixture
- may find out something interesting!

Bill Howard
BeechSportBill
N1927W 1973 Sport 150
Beech Aero Club NorthWest Region Director
---- Msg sent via @bmi.net Mail v4 - http://www.bmi.net

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:45:12 -0500
From: "Michael Rellihan" <rellihan@rellihan.com>
Subject: [BAC-Mail] RE: [musketeermail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77
Sierra MC-460
To: "'Dwyer, Bruce'" <Bruce.Dwyer@gowlings.com>,
<musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>, <bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org>
Message-ID: <003501c6204d$252489c0$6701a8c0@MOBILE2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Bruce, what is "very cold"? My belief is that the engine should idle OK on
a cold start down to maybe just above freezing. It is common to need to
keep it above 1,000 RPM for a minute or two, even at the 0 to 10 degrees
Celsius range, just like any other kind of engine. Below freezing, it may
take a longer warm-up before it will run at idle. It is better to keep it
between 1,000 and 1,500 RPM on cold start-up, to get enough oil splash on
the high-mounted Lycoming camshaft.



Any engine with carburetion or non-electronic fuel injection has to deal
with fuel vaporization before the fuel can burn. In low temperatures, it is
difficult for the fuel to vaporize; a lot of it remains in liquid or large
droplet form, and just passes through as soot or unburned fuel. Carburetion
is the worst about this, but even the Bendix fuel injection relies on a hot
intake valve and port area to achieve evaporation. This factor is why a
cold engine requires priming (carburetor) or boosting (fuel injection). It
requires a much richer mixture to keep it running when cold. Low RPM makes
the problem much worse. Higher RPM on a cold engine creates more "vacuum"
in the induction system, due to the more efficient "pumping action" by the
engine. The lower induction pressure helps the fuel vaporize. When both
engine and air are cold, and idling at low speed, the vacuum is reduced, so
the mixture has to be richer to achieve enough vaporized fuel for
combustion. These same circumstances are why auto and industrial engines
used to have a carburetor choke, in days gone by.



By now you may have deduced your solution, if you really need to have one.
You can probably improve your cold-engine idle RPM simply by setting the
mixture cog-wheel a bit richer. The adjustment is on the side of the
injector servo; your mechanic should be very familiar with it. Keep in mind
that if you do this, the mixture will be richer than normal when taxiing
back in with a hot engine. The engine will "lope" at hot low idle, if you
fail to lean it during ground ops when fully warmed up; and your RPM rise
during shut-down will be much greater (maybe 200 RPM or more).



You can experiment with this just to confirm the diagnosis. If you do
decide to leave it richer, you'll need to adjust it back to normal when
warmer weather arrives. You will also need to lean during ground ops with a
hot engine, or you will foul plugs. Frankly, if I were you, I would leave
it at the normal setting. The engine is trying to tell you that it is not
yet warm enough in the cylinder heads and induction system for normal
operation. It is best to just let it warm up completely before attempting
all forms of normal operation. But as suggested, you can set it a bit
richer temporarily, just to confirm the diagnosis (or you can leave it that
way).



Assuming you have the TANIS oil sump heater pad, but not the cylinder head
heaters, the cylinder heads and induction system don't get any significant
heat from the sump heater when it is really cold out. The only way to heat
the whole system is to run a duct from a small box heater, up into the
cowling outlet on the bottom. The heater can be located safely away from
the plane, so oil can't drip on it, etc. Lakewood made a perfect unit that
was about six inches square, with the controls on the upper rear, but I have
not found them in some time. It was easy to shape a duct adapter to the
heater, tape it on using the metal-foil HVAC tape, and run an air duct into
the exit area beneath the cowl. Coupled with a cowling blanket and cowl
inlet plugs, you could set these on low heat and they worked perfectly to
keep the entire engine compartment warm; magnetos, oil cooler, induction
tubes, etc. This is far better for starts in very cold weather, versus
single-point heating. This is particularly true of the 200 HP IO360,
because the induction system does not run through the oil sump, as it does
on most other models. The cooler induction provides more power from a
cooler inlet air charge, but it needs more warm-up when cold.



My personal preference, when the current consumption isn't an issue, is to
hook up the heater when you park the plane in the hangar. Open the oil door
and turn on the fan only, to flush out the high heat load. Then before
leaving the hangar, close the oil door, put in the cowl plus and lay on the
blanket, and turn the heater on low heat. This will keep the engine from
ever cooling below the dew point, so condensation cannot form in the engine.
It will also keep everything from going below a comfortable temperature, so
your next start is effortless. If it is extremely cold, you can leave the
heater on the higher heat setting, at the cost of added kilowatt charges if
you pay the electric bill. With the cowl blanket and cowling enclosure, it
doesn't take much heat to keep things comfortable. This is particularly
true when the heater doesn't have to warm everything up; it just has to keep
them from cooling down all the way. That makes a big difference. I once
purchased a sump heat pad; but after more research, I went the heater route
instead (and sold the pad).









_____

From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dwyer, Bruce
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:34 AM
To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com; bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
Subject: [musketeermail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460



* When I start cold (Ottawa, ON is very cold) the engine will not idle
below about 1300-1400 RPM without stalling. We have a Tannis Heater and an
engine cover on the plane and never attempt a start unless the engine oil
temp on the UBG is at least 40 degrees or better. Usually fires up just fine
and runs great once the temps are in the 90's (by the time you get to do the
run up, I will not take off unless the oil temp is 100 or better, just a
personal guess). During the time between 40 and 90 if you pull the power
below 1300 RPM the engine will quit. Almost seems like it is not getting
fuel even with the mixture full rich. I also tried yesterday with the
mixture leaned a bit to prevent the plugs from being fouled and to help warm
the engine a bit faster but same problem. Open the throttle a bit further
and it restarts fine. Any other IO-360 drivers had this problem? My mechanic
says that this is not normal for a fuel injected engine and suspects it may
be related to the Fuel Sending unit or something with the throttle body.

Bruce

C-GMTT




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:18:41 -0800
From: <info@avi-online.com>
Subject: [BAC-Mail] Are all gear housings created equal?
To: <bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org>
Message-ID: <200601231918.k0NJIZBA003113@ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"

Hi all,



Quick A-23 Question, I am stumped. While having my donuts replaced,
mechanic finds excessive wear on the front gear housing (Bearing has
gouged a full 1/8 inch into the magnesium casting, yikes!) Part number:
#169-810011-7. The parts manual shows the same housing used on all three
gears (bearings provide the steering capability of the front gear, while the
Jo-bolts fix the main gears in place. I found a decent used replacement
from Arrel Aircraft. The part arrives, but now the bearings do not fit, as
the bearing will not slide all the way down the casting.



Anyone know if there are different bearing model numbers for later
production runs of gear castings? Is there a dedicated Nose gear casting?



Almost flying- N-1472Limabean



Rich Kutzner



hifiguy@bak.rr.com






--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date: 1/23/2006


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:20:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann and Dan Kirby <abk100@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [BAC-Mail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra MC-460
To: "Robertson, Steve (Stephen H)" <STEPHEN.H.ROBERTSON@saic.com>,
"Dwyer, Bruce" <Bruce.Dwyer@gowlings.com>,
musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
Message-ID: <20060124002031.58926.qmail@web31504.mail.mud.y ahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Steve,

Why do you open the throttle when you prime?

Dan Kirby
Sierra N9299S

--- "Robertson, Steve (Stephen H)"
<STEPHEN.H.ROBERTSON@saic.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I don't preheat my IO-360 unless the outside
> temperature is 25 F or below.
> My plane is tied down outside. I use Phillips 20W-50
> oil. Before starting, I
> move throttle full open, mixture full rich. Then I
> hit the boost pump for
> 2-3 seconds. Then I close the throttle to a setting
> that will normally give
> me about 1000 rpm idle. It will usually start within
> 10-15 seconds of
> cranking. Once started, I have no trouble
> maintaining 1000 RPM. I'm sure it
> would idle slower when cold, but I don't operate it
> that way. After a few
> seconds of running, I lean aggressively and keep it
> that way until runup.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Robertson
> N4732J 1967 Super III
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org
> [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org]
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:34 AM
> To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com;
> bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
> Subject: [BAC-Mail] Fuel Sending Unit ? - 77 Sierra
> MC-460
>
>
> When I start cold (Ottawa, ON is very cold) the
> engine will not idle below
> about 1300-1400 RPM without stalling. We have a
> Tannis Heater and an engine
> cover on the plane and never attempt a start unless
> the engine oil temp on
> the UBG is at least 40 degrees or better. Usually
> fires up just fine and
> runs great once the temps are in the 90's (by the
> time you get to do the run
> up, I will not take off unless the oil temp is 100
> or better, just a
> personal guess). During the time between 40 and 90
> if you pull the power
> below 1300 RPM the engine will quit. Almost seems
> like it is not getting
> fuel even with the mixture full rich. I also tried
> yesterday with the
> mixture leaned a bit to prevent the plugs from being
> fouled and to help warm
> the engine a bit faster but same problem. Open the
> throttle a bit further
> and it restarts fine. Any other IO-360 drivers had
> this problem? My mechanic
> says that this is not normal for a fuel injected
> engine and suspects it may
> be related to the Fuel Sending unit or something
> with the throttle body.
>
> Bruce
>
> C-GMTT
>
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for
> the use of the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. The
> message may contain
> information that is privileged, confidential and
> exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If the reader of this message
> is not the intended
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for
> delivering the message
> to the intended recipient, you are notified that any
> dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this communication is
> strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this communication in error,
> please notify Gowlings
> immediately by email at postmaster@gowlings.com.
> Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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