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Thread: AEC Donuts - From the Horse's Mouth

  1. #21
    I had the "duro" discussion with Mike R back in 2006. This included his soft/hard mix idea.
    I will see if I can dig up the notes from then.
    In Oz

    Where I have landed a Beech

    (Plus, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom)

  2. #22
    The key to do this correctly would be to get actual technical data (i.e. engineering drawing) from Beech or Lord, and then use that to have identical parts produced. That fits both the spirit and letter of the OPP rules. From reading Mike's document, it sounds like he had at least one drawing, but I'm not sure if it was for the fixed gear or Sierra donuts. Maybe we can get the other one from Lord - I doubt Textron feels like sharing.... unless Marty can work some magic there.
    Dave Gribble
    Marion IA
    Flying the Restored Hangarmouse (Super III N3698Q)
    Building RV-9A N149DG

  3. #23
    Hi Dave!

    I see it a bit differently, but this is just for the fun of discussing it.

    I understand the rules to be primarily for helping people that cannot get parts due to the age of the aircraft or the time / complexity / inability of finding them. That would be just a general rule of course. But the spirit of that rule becomes the possibility of reverse-engineering parts. For example if Textron/lord/etc no longer existed then an owner could pay a DER to calculate approximately what the donuts were with regards to hardness and elasticity based on the arm of the landing gear and the weight of the plane.

    ...if we give the FAA plans from Lord or Textron then we have a company available to make them and we might not get to claim OPP...



  4. #24
    Orbiting Earth Touring the Galaxy
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Jacksons Gap, Alabama
    I doubt Lord would be cooperative. They have a captive customer in Textron. Sunk cost in tooling, still paying adequate margins. DDs comment regarding OPP is spot on, cost is not a determining factor. Availability is. There are plenty of donuts available, albeit expensive.

    If tomorrow morning donuts were 10 bucks each, there would be no flood of buyers. The market just isn't that big.


    Rap McBurney

  5. #25
    Hi Mark
    I am busy investigating manufacturing the discs. I have contact with Rap and obtained manufacturing details from him. i need a sample set of discs 1 and 7 to loan, for the manufacturers to check against their mix. It will not be destructive tests and I will pay for courier. Can you assist? Would you know what the off-take for such discs would be per year - a rough estimate?
    Best Regards

  6. #26
    Orbiting Earth Touring the Galaxy
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Jacksons Gap, Alabama
    Take-off meaning how big is the market? Here's a guess: 2,000 flying mouses, donuts good for 10 years, therefore 200 donut jobs per year x 24 equals 4,800 donuts if everyone stays on schedule (which they don't). Nearly every mouse listed for sale has donuts beyond service life, so IMHO only BACers replace donuts. 650 of us means 65 per year x 24 = 1560 donuts per year. We are not seeing anything close to that level of replacement. I have 2 musketeers on the field that are seriously in need of donuts and the owners won't pull the trigger. FWIW, I've been doing donut jobs since 2009, I've done 60 (or so) gear legs. That's 480 in 8.5 years. And about all I work on is mouses.

    The market just isn't there. That, coupled with the flood of sales during the last donut deal will probably keep the market quiet for a decade or so.

    AECi is currently shipping donuts mfg in 2012?, so the inventory turnover isn't that great, assuming a production run of 1,000 units or so. IIRC in 2012 donuts were $45 each, now close to double that price, same donut. So if a competitor came along AECi could simply reduce pricing back to $45 or so and squeeze out the new guy.

    If donuts were $10 each, I doubt there would be many more installations since the labor would remain in the 20 hr range.
    Last edited by Unclerap; 09-28-2018 at 08:16 AM.

    Rap McBurney

  7. #27
    Sadly, Rap is 100% correct. Or maybe even a little optimistic.

    We need a set of Sierra main gear donuts so bad. I just can’t bring myself to order anything from Karman.

  8. #28
    Hi Rap
    I am awaiting production cost from a local supplier with the capability to manufacture small batches on just in time demand. the material cost is minimal and I am manufacturing the dies in my CNC shop. It might very well come in at affordable range of $10 per disc. Lets see. I will keep the forum up to date.
    Any Idea on mouse numbers abroad?

  9. #29
    Could someone post a picture of one of these "donuts"?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by cmmguy View Post
    Could someone post a picture of one of these "donuts"?
    Here is a pic, hope it helps.

    Shock Disc.jpg
    Michael Dunlevie

    Where the Sundowner took me.

    Sarchasm (noun): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

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