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Thread: Sierra Weight and Balance issues

  1. #1

    Sierra Weight and Balance issues

    Hello fellow Musketeer owners,
    I have a friend with a B24R Sierra that has the mechanics stumpped with a forward CG issue. Although the airplane has a three bladed propeller, that only accounts for about 10 lbs. There is some fiberglass repair work to the nose cowl that would account for a few more, but not enough to explain the forward CG. Right now it would take an additional 30 lbs at the ballast weight (now at 10 lbs) arm to bring the CG to the forward limit (or 5 cases of oil in the baggage area). The floor boards have been pulled an checked for dirt/debris/dead bodies and the like, but nothing found. The airplane is not overly equipped with avonics/autopilot and no structural repairs were found and the log book didn't have any clues. The collective opinion is; Beech messed up on this one airplane. But I don't know how that could happen.
    We discussed the light weight starter, alternator and going back to a 2 bladed prop. Still, these numbers don't help much on paper. Any ideas?
    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az


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  2. #2

    Sierra Weight and Balance issues

    >I have a friend with a B24R Sierra that has the mechanics stumpped with a
    >forward CG issue. Although the airplane has a three bladed propeller,
    >that only accounts for about 10 lbs. There is some fiberglass repair work
    >to the nose cowl that would account for a few more, but not enough to
    >explain the forward CG. Right now it would take an additional 30 lbs at
    >the ballast weight (now at 10 lbs) arm to bring the CG to the forward
    >limit (or 5 cases of oil in the baggage area).

    >The collective opinion is; Beech messed up on this one airplane. But I
    >don't know how that could happen.

    I had a plane years ago that had an ERROR in the factory W&B calculation.

    My partner and I recalculated it several times each and compared numbers,
    convinced that THEY could not have made such an error when they were making
    hundreds of planes a year, and certainly would have spotted one that seemed
    out of the normal range. SURPRISE! They DID screw it up. If flew that
    way through several owners and a couple of avionics upgrades and a paint job.

    I'd say that if the numbers are wrong (especially THAT far wrong), and you
    can fly the plane and flare for landing and lift off normally, that you are
    seriously in need of a re-weigh on calibrated scales. Why not weigh the
    plane once every 30 years or so? <G>

    Aside from filling the spinner with lead or the tail cone with helium, I
    can't explain how its possible to have it be so far ahead of the forward
    limits.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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  3. #3

    Sierra Weight and Balance issues

    I thought a 3 blade prop would add about 27 lbs to the
    nose ( difference in weight between 2 and 3 blade
    prop).

    Regards

    HarryR
    --- Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:

    >
    > >I have a friend with a B24R Sierra that has the
    > mechanics stumpped with a
    > >forward CG issue. Although the airplane has a
    > three bladed propeller,
    > >that only accounts for about 10 lbs. There is some
    > fiberglass repair work
    > >to the nose cowl that would account for a few more,
    > but not enough to
    > >explain the forward CG. Right now it would take an
    > additional 30 lbs at
    > >the ballast weight (now at 10 lbs) arm to bring the
    > CG to the forward
    > >limit (or 5 cases of oil in the baggage area).
    >
    > >The collective opinion is; Beech messed up on this
    > one airplane. But I
    > >don't know how that could happen.
    >
    > I had a plane years ago that had an ERROR in the
    > factory W&B calculation.
    >
    > My partner and I recalculated it several times each
    > and compared numbers,
    > convinced that THEY could not have made such an
    > error when they were making
    > hundreds of planes a year, and certainly would have
    > spotted one that seemed
    > out of the normal range. SURPRISE! They DID screw
    > it up. If flew that
    > way through several owners and a couple of avionics
    > upgrades and a paint job.
    >
    > I'd say that if the numbers are wrong (especially
    > THAT far wrong), and you
    > can fly the plane and flare for landing and lift off
    > normally, that you are
    > seriously in need of a re-weigh on calibrated
    > scales. Why not weigh the
    > plane once every 30 years or so? <G>
    >
    > Aside from filling the spinner with lead or the tail
    > cone with helium, I
    > can't explain how its possible to have it be so far
    > ahead of the forward
    > limits.
    >
    > Bob Steward, A&P IA
    > Birmingham, AL
    >
    >


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  4. #4

    Sierra Weight and Balance issues

    Before you get too worried, get your plane weighed. As Bob stated,
    there is a reasonable chance that there is an error in your
    paperwork. I had my plane weighed recently after it became obvious
    that the paperwork on mine had some errors. It cost me a couple of
    hours and a couple hundred bucks.

    Best regards,

    Steve Robertson
    N4732J 1967 Super III

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, Martin Vanover <b024700@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Hello fellow Musketeer owners,
    > I have a friend with a B24R Sierra that has the mechanics
    stumpped with a forward CG issue. Although the airplane has a three
    bladed propeller, that only accounts for about 10 lbs. There is some
    fiberglass repair work to the nose cowl that would account for a few
    more, but not enough to explain the forward CG. Right now it would
    take an additional 30 lbs at the ballast weight (now at 10 lbs) arm
    to bring the CG to the forward limit (or 5 cases of oil in the
    baggage area). The floor boards have been pulled an checked for
    dirt/debris/dead bodies and the like, but nothing found. The
    airplane is not overly equipped with avonics/autopilot and no
    structural repairs were found and the log book didn't have any
    clues. The collective opinion is; Beech messed up on this one
    airplane. But I don't know how that could happen.
    > We discussed the light weight starter, alternator and going back
    to a 2 bladed prop. Still, these numbers don't help much on paper.
    Any ideas?
    > Marty Vanover
    > Phoenix, Az
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------
    > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
    and save big.
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >






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  5. #5

    Sierra Weight and Balance issues

    If your plane's been flying, the number is so far out that it should
    not have been and I'll agree with the others that you ought to just
    have it re-weighed. If it has not been flying (just painted, fresh
    mx, etc), then somebody may have left a ballast weight out of the
    tail, swapped in a lighter battery (stolen your good one), etc, and
    you really want to know before trying to take off.

    (Rhetorical group question follows) On a side note, have you ever
    thought about what do you do when you take off and the cg is so far
    aft (or shifts) that you run out of elevator control? (Examples
    include freighters and the January 2003, Beech 1900 accident in
    Charlotte.) The cargo carriers teach their folks that they can
    compensate to some degree by rolling into a steep turn, as doing so
    takes up some of that excessive aft stick to stay at an altitude or
    at least reduce the climb. Lining up for final would be pretty
    tough, but it gets you past the initial pitch-up and gives time to
    figure out a next step. Just something to file away in the memory
    bank...

    Bob
    A&P, Aero Eng

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, Martin Vanover <b024700@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Hello fellow Musketeer owners,
    > I have a friend with a B24R Sierra that has the mechanics
    stumpped with a forward CG issue. Although the airplane has a three
    bladed propeller, that only accounts for about 10 lbs. There is
    some fiberglass repair work to the nose cowl that would account for
    a few more, but not enough to explain the forward CG. Right now it
    would take an additional 30 lbs at the ballast weight (now at 10
    lbs) arm to bring the CG to the forward limit (or 5 cases of oil in
    the baggage area). The floor boards have been pulled an checked
    for dirt/debris/dead bodies and the like, but nothing found. The
    airplane is not overly equipped with avonics/autopilot and no
    structural repairs were found and the log book didn't have any
    clues. The collective opinion is; Beech messed up on this one
    airplane. But I don't know how that could happen.
    > We discussed the light weight starter, alternator and going back
    to a 2 bladed prop. Still, these numbers don't help much on paper.
    Any ideas?
    > Marty Vanover
    > Phoenix, Az
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------
    > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
    and save big.
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >






    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

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