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Thread: S&F Musketeers head count?

  1. #1

    S&F Musketeers head count?

    I was there ~ mainly Sun. Can confirm seeing 3. Early model, later model &
    a Sierra.

    Not sure about the early model 'variant'. Not even positive about the later
    model (think it had the tell tale 3rd windows)..was on the 'John Deere'
    wagon, with wood seats..& hungry..

    No doubt about the Sierra though & even have a few pix.

    Was surprised because the Sierra had small (could barely see it from a
    distance)
    N-numbers, down the fuselage.

    Thought that was illegal? (have the pix)..

    jon
    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  2. #2

    S&F Musketeers head count?

    Now you have me wondering if mine is illegal? I have a '68 Sport that got a new paint job about a year before I bought it. It has the small (roughly 2" tall) numbers on the tail fin. Any members expert in whether this is kosher, or if I have to get it fixed??? Thanks.

    Larry
    '68 Sport "160"
    N5088T

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Bigbajon@aol.com
    >Sent: Apr 10, 2006 3:47 PM
    >To: bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >Subject: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head count?
    >
    >I was there ~ mainly Sun. Can confirm seeing 3. Early model, later model &
    >a Sierra.
    >
    >Not sure about the early model 'variant'. Not even positive about the later
    >model (think it had the tell tale 3rd windows)..was on the 'John Deere'
    >wagon, with wood seats..& hungry..
    >
    >No doubt about the Sierra though & even have a few pix.
    >
    >Was surprised because the Sierra had small (could barely see it from a
    >distance)
    >N-numbers, down the fuselage.
    >
    >Thought that was illegal? (have the pix)..
    >
    >jon
    >_______________________________________________
    >BAC-Mail mailing list
    >BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  3. #3
    kmuller at csc.com
    Guest

    S&F Musketeers head count?

    I just went thru this during my first annual. My C23 was painted by the
    previous owner about 4 years ago and it just had 3" numbers on the tail.
    The A&P said I had to put 12" numbers on to comply. After doing my own
    research I had to agree with him. Even if your plane predates the 12"
    requirement, if you repaint it you then have to comply. There are
    exceptions - homebuilts and warbirds. I ended up ordering vinyl stick on
    numbers with the same font, slant, color as the existing small numbers from
    Aircraft Spruce. They went on relatively easy and look nice... like they
    were there all the time.

    Kerry
    6629R




    Hellmuth
    <lndh@earthlink.n
    et> To
    Sent by: Bigbajon@aol.com,
    bac-mail-bounces@ bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    beechaeroclub.org cc

    Subject
    04/13/2006 01:34 Re: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head
    PM count?


    Please respond to
    Hellmuth
    <lndh@earthlink.n
    et>






    Now you have me wondering if mine is illegal? I have a '68 Sport that got
    a new paint job about a year before I bought it. It has the small (roughly
    2" tall) numbers on the tail fin. Any members expert in whether this is
    kosher, or if I have to get it fixed??? Thanks.

    Larry
    '68 Sport "160"
    N5088T

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Bigbajon@aol.com
    >Sent: Apr 10, 2006 3:47 PM
    >To: bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >Subject: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head count?
    >
    >I was there ~ mainly Sun. Can confirm seeing 3. Early model, later model
    &
    >a Sierra.
    >
    >Not sure about the early model 'variant'. Not even positive about the
    later
    >model (think it had the tell tale 3rd windows)..was on the 'John Deere'

    >wagon, with wood seats..& hungry..
    >
    >No doubt about the Sierra though & even have a few pix.
    >
    >Was surprised because the Sierra had small (could barely see it from a
    >distance)
    >N-numbers, down the fuselage.
    >
    >Thought that was illegal? (have the pix)..
    >
    >jon
    >_______________________________________________
    >BAC-Mail mailing list
    >BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail


    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  4. #4

    S&F Musketeers head count?

    Hellmuth is correct, but I thought I'd add some explanation...

    The governing rule is 14 CFR Part 45 - Subsection C - basically 45.21-45.33...size is 45.29 (pasted below).

    So the net-net is for certified aircraft other than warbirds/exhibition aircraft you must display 12 inch marks when the aircraft is repainted (after the rule change) or whenever you penetrate an ADIZ (sidebar - the FAA has issued governence that 12 inch marks are not required for the Washington ADIZ).

    Experimental aircraft get a pass for 3" marks if their cruising speed is less than 180 KCAS - but they still need 12" for an ADIZ.
    -=-
    Mark

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    45.29 Size of marks.
    (a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this section.

    (b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on-

    (1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:

    (i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;

    (ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;

    (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and

    (iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in accordance with 45.22.

    (2) Airships, spherical balloons, and nonspherical balloons, must be at least 3 inches high; and

    (3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.

    (c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.

    (d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick as the character is high.

    (e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-fourth of the character width.

    (f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by 45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.

    (g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the aircraft.

    (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.




    -----Original Message-----
    From: bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org [mailto:bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org] On Behalf Of Kerry L Muller
    Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:52 PM
    To: Hellmuth
    Cc: bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org; bac-mail-bounces@beechaeroclub.org; Bigbajon@aol.com
    Subject: Re: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head count?





    I just went thru this during my first annual. My C23 was painted by the previous owner about 4 years ago and it just had 3" numbers on the tail.
    The A&P said I had to put 12" numbers on to comply. After doing my own
    research I had to agree with him. Even if your plane predates the 12"
    requirement, if you repaint it you then have to comply. There are
    exceptions - homebuilts and warbirds. I ended up ordering vinyl stick on
    numbers with the same font, slant, color as the existing small numbers from
    Aircraft Spruce. They went on relatively easy and look nice... like they
    were there all the time.

    Kerry
    6629R




    Hellmuth
    <lndh@earthlink.n
    et> To
    Sent by: Bigbajon@aol.com,
    bac-mail-bounces@ bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    beechaeroclub.org cc

    Subject
    04/13/2006 01:34 Re: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head
    PM count?


    Please respond to
    Hellmuth
    <lndh@earthlink.n
    et>






    Now you have me wondering if mine is illegal? I have a '68 Sport that got a new paint job about a year before I bought it. It has the small (roughly 2" tall) numbers on the tail fin. Any members expert in whether this is kosher, or if I have to get it fixed??? Thanks.

    Larry
    '68 Sport "160"
    N5088T

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Bigbajon@aol.com
    >Sent: Apr 10, 2006 3:47 PM
    >To: bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >Subject: [BAC-Mail] S&F Musketeers head count?
    >
    >I was there ~ mainly Sun. Can confirm seeing 3. Early model, later
    >model
    &
    >a Sierra.
    >
    >Not sure about the early model 'variant'. Not even positive about the
    later
    >model (think it had the tell tale 3rd windows)..was on the 'John Deere'

    >wagon, with wood seats..& hungry..
    >
    >No doubt about the Sierra though & even have a few pix.
    >
    >Was surprised because the Sierra had small (could barely see it from a
    >distance)
    >N-numbers, down the fuselage.
    >
    >Thought that was illegal? (have the pix)..
    >
    >jon
    >_______________________________________________
    >BAC-Mail mailing list
    >BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail


    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail
    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

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