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Thread: io 346 o-360 0-320

  1. #1

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    You do need an STC or a one time field approval. The STC does not seem to exist, at least we can't find it. The field approval route has been done a couple of times but was not easy or inexpensive.

    Willis, A23

    oreillyair <oreillyair@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: I have searched the Faa database of STC's and can only find an stc for
    installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc holder may not exist
    any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the io-346 with an o-360
    or 0-320? If so where and who owns it or do you even need stc since
    type cert lists all of those engines but on different models.










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  2. #2

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    >You do need an STC or a one time field approval. The STC does not seem
    >to exist, at least we can't find it. The field approval route has been
    >done a couple of times but was not easy or inexpensive. Willis, A23
    >
    >oreillyair <oreillyair@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: I have searched the Faa
    >database of STC's and can only find an stc for
    >installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc holder may not exist
    >any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the io-346 with an o-360
    >or 0-320? If so where and who owns it or do you even need stc since
    >type cert lists all of those engines but on different models.

    The IO-346 Continental to IO-360 Lycoming swap has been done on field
    approval at least twice. I did the clean up and paperwork for one of them
    that had been converted and sold, but the FAA approval had never been
    obtained (or, it would seem, sought in the first place).

    Had to write 40 pages for the adjusted AFM to square the original IO-346
    Mouse manual with the IO-360 Super manual. It was VERY labor
    intensive. The other work consisted of mounting the missing gauges in the
    panel and re-marking the ones that were there with the correct range
    marks. Lots of tedious, detail work to make the antique S-W gauges read
    correctly for the different engine, etc.

    As far as the actual conversion, you'll need the IO-360, engine mount, prop
    and spinner, intake (air box), and muffler off a Super III, and the control
    cables for the engine. Needless to say, this isn't cheap! I'd bet you'd
    have to have a brother-in-law that was an insurance adjuster, and a fair
    amount of LUCK to get this package for under $20K if the engine had useable
    time left on it.

    Those wishing to buy a serialized, AFM are free to contact me.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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  3. #3

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    I was considering the same thing on 1490L and consulted with my local FISDO
    on the process of obtaining a field approval. The fact that there are
    several engine models that obtain the exact or extremely close weight and
    configuration specifications to the IO-346 doesn't seem to matter. The
    response I got was that the FISDO would not entertain a field approval
    request without submitting everything to Oklahoma City for an extensive
    engineering review. Obtaining an engineering review could conceivably take
    years. Even if the review approved the request, the FISDO would emplace
    extensive restrictions and require a prolonged flight testing schedule.
    When everything was said and done, the process would be practically
    identical to obtaining an STC for the engine replacement. Cost, time and
    man hours involved caused me to abandon the idea. Perhaps someone else will
    have better luck at their FISDO, but I doubt it.



    Woodie



    _____

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of WILLIS COOKE
    Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:54 AM
    To: oreillyair; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] io 346 o-360 0-320



    You do need an STC or a one time field approval. The STC does not seem to
    exist, at least we can't find it. The field approval route has been done a
    couple of times but was not easy or inexpensive.

    Willis, A23

    oreillyair <oreillyair@tampabay <mailtoreillyair%40tampabay.rr.com>
    .rr.com> wrote: I have searched the Faa database of STC's and can only find
    an stc for
    installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc holder may not exist
    any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the io-346 with an o-360
    or 0-320? If so where and who owns it or do you even need stc since
    type cert lists all of those engines but on different models.

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  4. #4

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    I agree. The best way to get a Lycoming is to sell the airplane with the Continental and purchase what you want. You can probably get out for the same $20K or $30K difference and bypass the hassle with the FISDO. There comes a time when keeping a 40 year old airplane alive is not worth the hassle unless you are into antiques.
    Willis

    Woodie Diamond <woodie@aviatorman.com> wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I was considering the same thing on 1490L and consulted with my local FISDO on the process of obtaining a field approval. The fact that there are several engine models that obtain the exact or extremely close weight and configuration specifications to the IO-346 doesnít seem to matter. The response I got was that the FISDO would not entertain a field approval request without submitting everything to Oklahoma City for an extensive engineering review. Obtaining an engineering review could conceivably take years. Even if the review approved the request, the FISDO would emplace extensive restrictions and require a prolonged flight testing schedule. When everything was said and done, the
    process would be practically identical to obtaining an STC for the engine replacement. Cost, time and man hours involved caused me to abandon the idea. Perhaps someone else will have better luck at their FISDO, but I doubt it.

    Woodie


    ---------------------------------

    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of WILLIS COOKE
    Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:54 AM
    To: oreillyair; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] io 346 o-360 0-320


    You do need an STC or a one time field approval. The STC does not seem to exist, at least we can't find it. The field approval route has been done a couple of times but was not easy or inexpensive.

    Willis, A23

    oreillyair <oreillyair@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: I have searched the Faa database of STC's and can only find an stc for
    installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc holder may not exist
    any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the io-346 with an o-360
    or 0-320? If so where and who owns it or do you even need stc since
    type cert lists all of those engines but on different models.

    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  5. #5

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    >The STC you found is held by a gentleman in the New
    >York area. Unfortunately, it was a one time STC for
    >his aircraft only.
    >
    > > I have searched the Faa database of STC's and can
    > > only find an stc for
    > > installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc
    > > holder may not exist
    > > any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the
    > > io-346 with an o-360
    > > or 0-320?

    The problem with the O-320 in an A23 that was powered by the IO-346 is that
    the O-320 is rated at either 150 or 160 HP and the IO-346 was 165.

    That means your operating limitations are not valid, therefore much testing
    needs to be done.

    Going with an O-360 or IO-360 means you have more HP, and the FAA will
    waive the performance testing.

    Strangely enough, its actually MORE work to put an O-360 on than the
    IO-360. That is because of the need for carb heat, low pressure fuel boost
    pump and gauge, and changes to the under cowl fuel system, etc.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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  6. #6

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    And after spending $25K altering a $20K airframe you get a $30K at most airplane. Not to mention the heartache. Once again we conclude that the way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one and quit before it is all gone.

    Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com> wrote:
    >The STC you found is held by a gentleman in the New
    >York area. Unfortunately, it was a one time STC for
    >his aircraft only.
    >
    > > I have searched the Faa database of STC's and can
    > > only find an stc for
    > > installing an 0-320 on certain models and the stc
    > > holder may not exist
    > > any longer. Is there an stc for replacing the
    > > io-346 with an o-360
    > > or 0-320?

    The problem with the O-320 in an A23 that was powered by the IO-346 is that
    the O-320 is rated at either 150 or 160 HP and the IO-346 was 165.

    That means your operating limitations are not valid, therefore much testing
    needs to be done.

    Going with an O-360 or IO-360 means you have more HP, and the FAA will
    waive the performance testing.

    Strangely enough, its actually MORE work to put an O-360 on than the
    IO-360. That is because of the need for carb heat, low pressure fuel boost
    pump and gauge, and changes to the under cowl fuel system, etc.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL




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  7. #7

    io 346 o-360 0-320

    > >Strangely enough, its actually MORE work to put an O-360 on than the
    > >IO-360. That is because of the need for carb heat, low pressure fuel boost
    > >pump and gauge, and changes to the under cowl fuel system, etc.
    >
    >And after spending $25K altering a $20K airframe you get a $30K at
    >most airplane. Not to mention the heartache. Once again we conclude
    >that the way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large
    >one and quit before it is all gone.

    Actually, no. Used up A23s with bad engines have sold with an $9000-$15000
    ASKING price (some were offered on MM). With the average Lycoming factory
    reman going for ~$20K installed these days, its not so difficult to imagine
    spending $20K in parts to swap out the dead IO-346 for an IO-360.

    The one I finished the paperwork on was sold in the mid to upper $30's
    range, and had nothing to speak of for avionics, just your regular older
    Nav-Coms and Transponder. So if you picked up that $9000 A23, put in $20K
    in parts and had a plane that would fly circles around a stock A23 (and out
    climb and out run a Sundowner), that wouldn't be such a bad situation with
    around $30-$35K invested.

    If you just had a run out IO-346 and performed this swap rather than OH,
    you'd also have a case, crank, cam and perhaps even some cylinders to sell
    to the others trying to keep the IO-346 powered fleet running.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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