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Thread: Demers Super Tips

  1. #1

    Demers Super Tips

    Here are the instructions for installing Demers Super Tips. I also have the instruction booklet but it applies only to Pipers that have a builtup wingtip rather than a bolt on tip. These are the instructions that I used and I had very good results.

    The tips became available in about 1970. The STC that limits the gross was a reissue in 1991.

    It is true that engineers would rather calculate than guess, but when it comes to the lift generated by a Demers Super Tip viz-a-viz a Horner tip as originally supplied we go back to guess work. I have had people accuse me of lying when I claimed a very small improvement from installing my Super Tips. Of course, I did not replace Horner tips in good condition with my new Super Tips. The old ones were cracked and not really airworthy. Beech engineers selected the Horner tips because they thought them preferable to the other choices they had. Drooped tips had been invented by that time and were not preferred for some reason. I elect to think it was because the droop tips couldn't be vacuum formed from ABS for 37 cents each.

    I doubt that the increase in tip lift if any moves the center of lift outboard a half inch.

    The explanation that I heard and believe is that when Ace started selling his tips they were big with the ag flying industry because they would lift a few pounds more than the factory tips. The ag operators typically loaded as much product as they could get airborn with and did a lot of yanking and banking. A couple of them broke the wings off. The FAA in its infinite wisdom make Ace lower his max gross for all his STCs. When I asked Ace about this his answer was not very polite, but not directed at me.

    The theoretical affect of the changed center of lift would be easy to calculate if we had a theoretical change of tip lift to work with. I don't have that figure to work with, do you?

    Willis Cooke, P. E., B. S. Physics, Owner A23 with Demers' Super Tips and person who has discussed the matter with Ace Demers himself




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  2. #2
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    Demers Super Tips

    Hello Willis,
    I hate to put you on the spot. What you posted was very good info but
    lacks the same technical support that Ace's STC application lacked. The
    technical proof that the wing tips would not have ANY long or short term
    adverse effect on the wing structure at the original aircraft's gross
    weight figures. To produce that data would cost a considerable amount of
    money. We all have a tendency to blame city hall for all our ills. Well
    the FAA acted in the interest of public safety based on it's engineering
    data from the Air Tractor wing failures. Granted when they act it is
    usually overly conservative but that's what they are primarily here for
    is to protect the public, aviators and non-aviators alike; not to
    support STC producers who are short on testing and engineering funds.

    Wes K



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  3. #3

    Demers Super Tips

    Hi Wes,
    You are not putting me on a spot. I put myself there intentionally. If I were trying to make a living as an A&P/AI where my career was dependent on excellent relations with the FISDO, I would be a lot more careful about what I wrote. It is without saying that the STC is the law about the maximum legal gross weight with the Demers tips installed. I can't question that. I can question the motives of the FAA bureauocracy and do. When you multiply a measurement by a wild guess, the answer is a wild guess. I do not advocate ignoring FAA rules and I try not to do so myself, but I don't think we should remain silent when rules are making our sport more difficult and expensive. Some of these rules make our sport more dangerous because we are unable to take advantage of new technology.

    I don't think that enhancing the FAA bureauocracy or Rapid parts revenue are legitimate objectives.

    Beside that, I am a natural born trouble maker.

    Willis

    ----- Original Message ----
    From: Wes K <wsknettl@centurytel.net>
    To: wrcooke@flash.net; musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:57:51 AM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Demers Super Tips

    Hello Willis,
    I hate to put you on the spot. What you posted was very good info but
    lacks the same technical support that Ace's STC application lacked. The
    technical proof that the wing tips would not have ANY long or short term
    adverse effect on the wing structure at the original aircraft's gross
    weight figures. To produce that data would cost a considerable amount of
    money. We all have a tendency to blame city hall for all our ills. Well
    the FAA acted in the interest of public safety based on it's engineering
    data from the Air Tractor wing failures. Granted when they act it is
    usually overly conservative but that's what they are primarily here for
    is to protect the public, aviators and non-aviators alike; not to
    support STC producers who are short on testing and engineering funds.

    Wes K



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links













    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

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    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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