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Thread: Thinking about an A23 - want some advice

  1. #1
    Guest
    Guest

    Thinking about an A23 - want some advice

    Ok, I know that plane values tend to swing depending on age, hours,
    etc. but I just want some opinions on a plane I'm considering at the
    field I'm training at. I'm not trying to screw the seller or beat
    him down to the lowest price; I just want to get all the info I can
    find so I'm not clueless. It looks like a good IFR trainer/moderate
    cross country machine. Here's the specs, hours are approximate.

    '63 A23 Musketeer
    160hp lyc w/800h SMOH
    AFTT 2800h
    IFR w/King avionics - it also appears that someone redid the panel to
    a standard 6-pack.
    Clean interior and exterior

    Last annual 1/2005 - this is the first yellow flag

    The asking price is around 28k. This seems a bit high compared to
    what I've found online (ASO, controller, barnstormers, TAP, etc..).
    AOPA Vref puts it at 22k, while TAPs NAAA puts it about 18~20k (good
    vs. excelent int/paint). I'm hoping to look at the plane in person
    in the next couple of days, but I want a good idea of what I'm
    getting into.

    Assuming it is a pristine, low time airframe with a solid engine &
    has been taken care of is it worth 28k?

    How about if it needs some work? (gear doughnuts, general maint,
    maybe some engine work?) It is 8 months out of annual at the moment -
    best case its been started & runup every couple of weeks, worst it
    hasn't been started since last year. We all know the gremlins come
    out when planes sit.

    Would offering 18~20 depending on the condition be out of line?
    Lower/Higher?

    I realize this is totally subjective, and the plane is worth whatever
    someone will pay for it. A couple of folks I've talked to seem to
    think that 18~20k wouldn't be totally unreasonable, but I want some
    Beech familiar owner/pilot input.

    Thanks for any info,

    Tyson






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  2. #2

    Thinking about an A23 - want some advice

    Airplane prices are like house prices, very subjective.

    Without seeing the plane, it is near to impossible to tell. Neither
    can you without some help. When you go, take an A&P or a
    knowledgable individual with you. Have them take a look and give you
    an INDEPENDENT assessment. It is too soon to have a pre-buy (annual)
    done. If you don't know an A&P call a shop at a DIFFERENT field and
    ask one of them to take a look with you. Be present when he/she
    does. Ask questions. Then get a thorough pre-buy done.

    If the donuts haven't been done since new, They're DUE. Being "out
    of annual" is not a huge issue. Annuals are only a sieve for
    maintenance issues anyway. Many things get missed or can and are
    deferred "til next time". You can use these for leveraging the
    price, but do get them taken care of. Maintenance neglect is the
    biggest killer of aircraft.

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "tysonb42" <tyson.baker@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Ok, I know that plane values tend to swing depending on age, hours,
    > etc. but I just want some opinions on a plane I'm considering at
    the
    > field I'm training at. I'm not trying to screw the seller or beat
    > him down to the lowest price; I just want to get all the info I can
    > find so I'm not clueless. It looks like a good IFR
    trainer/moderate
    > cross country machine. Here's the specs, hours are approximate.
    >
    > '63 A23 Musketeer
    > 160hp lyc w/800h SMOH
    > AFTT 2800h
    > IFR w/King avionics - it also appears that someone redid the panel
    to
    > a standard 6-pack.
    > Clean interior and exterior
    >
    > Last annual 1/2005 - this is the first yellow flag
    >
    > The asking price is around 28k. This seems a bit high compared to
    > what I've found online (ASO, controller, barnstormers, TAP,
    etc..).
    > AOPA Vref puts it at 22k, while TAPs NAAA puts it about 18~20k
    (good
    > vs. excelent int/paint). I'm hoping to look at the plane in person
    > in the next couple of days, but I want a good idea of what I'm
    > getting into.
    >
    > Assuming it is a pristine, low time airframe with a solid engine &
    > has been taken care of is it worth 28k?
    >
    > How about if it needs some work? (gear doughnuts, general maint,
    > maybe some engine work?) It is 8 months out of annual at the
    moment -
    > best case its been started & runup every couple of weeks, worst it
    > hasn't been started since last year. We all know the gremlins come
    > out when planes sit.
    >
    > Would offering 18~20 depending on the condition be out of line?
    > Lower/Higher?
    >
    > I realize this is totally subjective, and the plane is worth
    whatever
    > someone will pay for it. A couple of folks I've talked to seem to
    > think that 18~20k wouldn't be totally unreasonable, but I want some
    > Beech familiar owner/pilot input.
    >
    > Thanks for any info,
    >
    > Tyson
    >







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  3. #3

    Thinking about an A23 - want some advice

    >Ok, I know that plane values tend to swing depending on age, hours,
    >etc. but I just want some opinions on a plane I'm considering at the
    >field I'm training at. I'm not trying to screw the seller or beat
    >him down to the lowest price; I just want to get all the info I can
    >find so I'm not clueless. It looks like a good IFR trainer/moderate
    >cross country machine. Here's the specs, hours are approximate.
    >
    >'63 A23 Musketeer
    >160hp lyc w/800h SMOH

    This is a very desirable model of Musketeer. It has the 160 HP engine and
    many later model (A23-19) owners want to convert to high compression.

    Although it is on a Grumman oriented site, visit www.bondline.org and look
    under the maintenance link for information on inspection and pre-buy. I've
    put together an extensive article on how to buy an aircraft.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL



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  4. #4
    Guest
    Guest

    Thinking about an A23 - want some advice

    I bought my second Musketeer about a year ago. It was 6 years out of an
    annual so you can imagine my concerns. Had a detailed prebuy and this gave me a
    lot of leverage in negotiating an acceptable sales price. Here's my
    suggestion:

    First, go to the AOPA web site and use their online evaluation service.
    This will give you a good idea of what the airplane is worth. From there, and
    after your prebuy, start deducting from this value all your costs to put the
    airplane in flyable condition.

    Bob Steward's response is excellent and I suggest visiting his link. My
    final price was about $16000 for a 1965 Musketter II. I did have to spend about
    $3000 on the annual. And by the way, AOPA's title search discovered 2
    outstanding liens on the airplane that had to be cleared before I purchased the
    airplane.

    More questions? Contact me at _rexmw1@aol.com_ (mailto:rexmw1@aol.com)

    Rex Williams


    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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