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Thread: Turbo Sierra?

  1. #1

    Turbo Sierra?

    I have looked into turbocharging the Sierra. However, there are some fairly big issues to over come. The 80-100 lbs of a turbo installation in the nose of the Sierra would result in additional weight aft to balance the CG. Everyone knows we have a forward CG issue. I think there is room in the cowl for such an installation, but the certification cost would be fairly prohibitive. Especially, for such a small market. Turbo's are neat no doubt, but I think it would be more cost effective to find an airplane that is already turbocharged. If you have the money and just HAVE to have a turbo Sierra, it would probably require a composite propeller, light weight everything under the cowl and still some extra weight aft. If the STC'er couldn't' convince the FAA the performance improvement justifies a GWTO increase to at least compensate for the increase in OEW (which I have doubt), in my opinion, it wouldn't be worth it as essentially you would have a two seat airplane.

    My guess is a clean Sierra would see 160+ KTAS at the mid-teens with a fuel burn of around 12-13 gph.

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.

    John Rutkowski <jr@bdesigns.com> wrote:
    I went from a Sierra 1970 MC-2 to a '79 V35B with the TAT normalizer.

    Yes, the Sierra is about 140 kts at 8-10,000'

    The Turbo requires a lot of space and weight (80 lbs). The Sierra
    doesn't have the room in the nose for the intercooler and induction
    air system.

    That being said, if you do any amount of cross county flying the TAT
    system is a dream. Constant MP at 29.9" up to 20,000'. I cruize at
    12,000 - 14,000' above the crud, you can see the weather coming and
    steer around it. Speed is planned for 170kts, I've seen ground speeds
    in the 220 kts range. Cuts an hour off of my normal trip from DE to
    NC.

    Mountain flying is a non-event. I've flown out of Lake Tahoe and the
    plane departs as if it were sea level.

    Crossed the Rockies last summer off the airways due to weather and
    was sent to 18,000'. The plane was still going up 500 fpm.

    I fly WOT with 50F LOP. at 14.5 GPH.

  2. #2
    I talked in depth to the turbo alley people about a sierra system similar to the mooney system a few years ago. Bottom line is it won't happen with them for the ususal reasons.

  3. #3
    We have been kicking this around for a while, and some of us participated in a survey. Any new news??

    Rick Spann

  4. #4
    I spoke with the folks at Forced Aeromotive (forcedaeromotive.com). They have a supernormalizer system they have had approved in the Cirrus. Currently, they are working on certifying a Diamond with the IO-360 with this. He lists a host of improvements most significant being cost (appx. 28K installed), weight (18 lbs) and simplicity. If you have not seen the sight or spoken with him, I suggest you check it out. The cost is considerably less than the TAT turbo without the weight or heat issues of the turbo. This system will not get you up to FL 250, but will push your effective altitude up roughly 7-8000 ft, i.e. if you got 75% power at 7000 before, you will get 75% at 14,000 with the system.

    When I discussed this with him, he said they would need roughly 10 people to purchase the system to make it worthwhile to pursue the STC. Not sure what TAT was asking for.

    Adam
    Last edited by N8052R; 06-28-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by N8052R View Post
    I spoke with the folks at Forced Aeromotive (forcedaeromotive.com). They have a supernormalizer system they have had approved in the Cirrus. Currently, they are working on certifying a Diamond with the IO-360 with this. He lists a host of improvements most significant being cost (appx. 28K installed), weight (18 lbs) and simplicity. If you have not seen the sight or spoken with him, I suggest you check it out. The cost is considerably less than the TAT turbo without the weight or heat issues of the turbo. This system will not get you up to FL 250, but will push your effective altitude up roughly 7-8000 ft, i.e. if you got 75% power at 7000 before, you will get 75% at 14,000 with the system.

    When I discussed this with him, he said they would need roughly 10 people to purchase the system to make it worthwhile to pursue the STC. Not sure what TAT was asking for.

    Adam
    So what it he difference? Is the Forced Aeromotive a supercharger? (I'm lazy and haven't looked at the site)...
    My airplane isn't slow... it's stately.

  6. #6
    For that much money I would look at IO-390 instead. Especially for the diamond that started with 180 hp a 30 hp bump gives you effectively the same thing...probably would give you nearly 135 hp (75% of 180) to 14k, and it gives you 30 more hp down low every day.

    For a Sierra it's not that great but still just me that's the direction I'd go. Even 10 hp is good for about a 10% bump in RoC at gross - equivalent to getting back the performance hit from about ISA+30 deg F, or 150 lbs weight.

    And especially long term IO-390s might be easier to get parts and support for than a 10-off mod to an already relatively rare airframe. Lycoming already has them STC'd for E, F, J Mooneys. Cost seems to be nearly a push between install a factory reman IO-360 vs factory reman IO-390 on the Mooney via STC. Unless they're hiding costs somewhere. Anyway just my 2 cents

    http://gnaircraft.com/wp-content/upl...mooney-stc.pdf

    Byron

  7. #7
    I wouldn't think there would be enough -390's in the field to have a factory overhauled one available...
    My airplane isn't slow... it's stately.

  8. #8
    Well they've offered it, I haven't called them up maybe there's a 2000 hr waiting list. But really the 390 is just a 360 with different cylinders from what I understand, and Lycoming includes new cylinders on all of their factory overhauls anyway. I think that's how they were able to offer rebuilds right after the engine was introduced. Cardinal and Arrow are also STC'd btw.

    Byron

  9. #9
    You're probably correct, especially if the engines have the crank case in common.

    I remember Lycoming saying the IO-390 would be available as a replacement for any of the IO-360 application... wish someone would hang a carburator off of it, a 200 hp Sundowner would be nice to have.
    My airplane isn't slow... it's stately.

  10. #10
    I believe the 390 (and all of the"new" roller-cam-follower motors) have a revised crankcase around the lifter area.

    The 390 also (technically) requires a high performance endorsement.

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