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Thread: Musketeer -vs- sierra

  1. #1

    Musketeer -vs- sierra

    I've been looking at buying either a musketeer or a sierra. Anyone want to give me some advice? I found a musketeer that I really like, can't get a straight answer from anyone about the expected cruise speed. some It has the 165 hours Lycoming in it with 0 SMOH. Its the 19-23 two window trainer version, no luggage conpartment. Anyone know the expected cruise of this mouse. How does the actual cruise compare to the sierra? Are the owner manuels accurate about the speed?

  2. #2
    We've got a 1966 A23-19. Our engine is actually a 160HP Lycoming, but that's STC'd as stock was 150. There was an A23 that had a 165HP Continental also.

    Cruise on our A23-19 is right around 110-112 knots. A sierra is going to be a lot faster since it's another 40 horse and retractible.

    Ours has a luggage compartment and I highly recommend at least having that. You can't haul much otherwise. Check to see if it has the gross weight increase kit. It's just paperwork and stuff, but it allows you to gross at 2250 instead of 2200.

  3. #3
    Thank-you for the information. It does not have the baggage compartment. I wonder if their is an STC for adding one. The engine is STC's for the conversion from 150 to 160 hp. It does not look like it has the increased useful load, so I will look into it. Thanks

  4. #4
    I still have one of the Beech gross weight restoration kits for the Sports. It is listed in the BAC Classifieds.

  5. #5
    There is a big difference between an A23-19 and a B/C24. There's a goodly price and payload difference. It's really an apples to oranges comparison.

    First - adding the baggage compartment is not cost effective or practical. If you want that space, find another aircraft. A -19 without a baggage compartment should be thought of as a heavy 2+1 with long legs (thanks to the 60 gallon tanks). Enough payload for 3 people or 2 plus some luggage. Price competitive with a 152, Skipper, Lynx with a little more flexibility and of course the big plus that it's a Beech . The 23s are a more typical 2+2 four seater, a good 3 adult aircraft or 4 people with one or two of them kids or starvings - maybe 4 adults for a short trip around the patch (you won't have a ton of gas).

    Not a lot of 4 cylinder singles are real 4 person aircraft but the A Sierra (or the Supers) probably come as close as any. You can fine a few (usually the non-reweighed ones) with useful loads over 1000#.

    It really comes down to budget and mission. What is your mission? Who will you be flying? Will your flying be $100 hamburgers or overnight XCs with long legs? What's your budget to buy and fly? As has been mentioned here and other places don't underestimate your 1st year expenses above and beyond sale price (transit, pre-buy, sales/use tax, registration/property tax, 1st year's annual, etc).

    If budget doesn't line up with mission you'll have to decide where to make your compromise. If you really think you'll want to upgrade within a year or two it might be better to wait. You'll spend $5-$10k to acquire an aircraft usually, not counting initial squawks and upgrades, so if your budget is short of mission it may pay to wait, or find a partner and buy them out later, or try a club with buy-in and a low member/aircraft ratio.

  6. #6
    I want to know more about this 23-19 with a baggage compartment. BearAir, you said that is what you are looking at buying correct? If you add a baggage compartment to a sport you've got as capabable of a musketeer as any of them. If you've got some paperwork in your logs that would allow the rest of us a template to go for the baggage area, that paper is probably worth its weight in gold...

  7. #7
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    Jay,

    Bob Swaim, former BAC member and former Sport owner, made some modification to his Sport and that info is around somewhere. BUT I can't remember if he added another set of windows or a baggage compartment or both. If you snoop around you should be able to turn it up.

    Cloyd

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by j_w_bruce
    I want to know more about this 23-19 with a baggage compartment. BearAir, you said that is what you are looking at buying correct? If you add a baggage compartment to a sport you've got as capabable of a musketeer as any of them. If you've got some paperwork in your logs that would allow the rest of us a template to go for the baggage area, that paper is probably worth its weight in gold...
    Bought our girl a year ago.

    Ours wasn't added, it was part of the plane originally. It's even in the original POH (A23-19 Sport III). It's on the checklist near the beginning of the walk around to "check baggage door is secure". It's a 1966 model, so don't know if it's a popular option or not. It's listed in the POH that the maximum weight in the compartment is 270 lbs. The only thing I miss between our plane and a 1963 model we looked at initially, is the baggage area on the '63 can be reached from the inside of the plane over the back seats and we've got a wall! The battery is behind the rear wall of the baggage compartment on the right side. ELT is on a bracket on the opposite side.

    That helps weight and balance. We've also got the lightweight starter. It would be damned hard to get our plane out of CG. I've flown with an instructor in our plane last year with about 30 gallons of fuel on board, and that was about as close to forward CG as we've come. Between he and I we had 450 lbs in the front seats and no ballast. Did the weight and balance on her and we were still within CG (barely). My wife and I usually run around with about 45 lbs of stuff in the baggage compartment. We've got a survival pack and tent back there, plus chocks, tiedowns and the tow bar.

  9. #9
    Hi...and good luck

    For what its worth.... I flew my dad's Mouse in '63 and '64 and soloed in this aircraft. Flew with dad and me with mom in the back seat from Md to Il. It was underpowered and not for three large adults + luggage. Still a nice aircraft though. After many years of the "rest of life" I got back into flying and after "catching up" I bought a Sierra. I now live in N.E. Ohio and have flown the Sierra to Miss., Ok,Md and points inbetween. Now being a Broadcast consultant, carring lots of equipment it has been great. More room than the Bonanza or the Travellair that dad had later. and being able to get from Oh to Wash. D.C. in just under 2 hours is what works for me. As all the others have said.....You must figure out what you want to do with the aircraft. I also used the Sierrs for Commercail and CFI,CFII, which require complex aircraft (retract,flaps and variable pitch prop) Both (or any of the "baby beechs" fly great and just the other day I took another CFII back to his home base while his Cheroke was being worked on.....By his comments, He would have been happer with his Cheroke if he hadn't flown in "such a great aircraft as this Sierra" He had no idea how well built,quiet and he could not get over the room in my Sierra. But choose by what and where you will fly and if you are planning on getting more rateings any time soon. I would suggest that you fly in several of these aircraft before you make the finnal choice.

    Best of luck and good flying

    Steve Nelson
    N18903 Sierra

  10. #10
    I must second all those who previously stated that the aircraft must fit it's mission requirements. Too much or too little in regards to the a/c's capabilities, pilot demands, and probably most importantly what it takes out of your pocket book can spell instant trouble. Having said that I have flown all C & P brands and most Beeches. I fly for a living and find it uncomfortable doing a 4-6 hour flight where i can even get up and walk around. A 3-4 hour flight in the Sierra is not a problem other than boredom. I did the research and chose a Sierra and going into the fifth year I couldn't have made a better choice in my opinion with regards to cost vs benefits. Large cabin, well built a/c, rock solid flying platform. Average speed (134 tas) and good fuel consumption (10.0 gph) offset the high noise levels. I lucked out and found a 1982 model that had been pampered most of its life so there have been few unexpected costs other than routine mx. Good Luck with your choices!
    Eric Johnson 6521N

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