Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

  1. #1

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    can anybody shed some light on the short field take off procedure in
    the POH for my 1983 C23? Notably the fact that there really isn't one?

    When I was ferrying my newly bought baby Beech home last year, I
    dropped off my brother-in-law at Ellington CT, which has an 1800ft
    runway. Before landing I checked the POH to make sure I could get out
    again! I don't have the POH here, but I think it said about 1300ft was
    required at the weight and temp we had. I did 2 T/O there, and both
    were "interesting", especially for a new Sundowner pilot. It seemed I
    used almost the whole runway before lifting off in the recommended no-
    flap take off. The 25ft tall tree 25 ft from the threshold and on the
    centerline added some spice to the landings. Thank goodness there was
    a gap between the 50ft trees on the take off end!

    So why doesn't the POH call for 1 notch of flaps in a short field T/O
    (as I was trained to do on C****a 150's)? I have tried it from my home
    field with a 7000ft runway, and it takes about 400-500ft off the runway
    roll, reducing lift off airspeed by about 10kts. Initial climb isn't
    bad either - about the same as a standard no-flaps lift off.

    Curious Paul.
    N6349C, McKinney TX




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  2. #2

    The specs were in my POH

    The specs for the short field takeoff were in my POH and it doesn't call for flaps in either a short or soft field takeoff. I most definitely do use one notch on the soft field, but have never used them on the short field. For the short field, I start rotating at 60 kias and climb at 68. I don't thave the POH in front of me at the moment, but I can give you a page reference if you want to PM me. BTW, my bird is a 1983 Sundowner.

  3. #3

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Hi Paul,

    Actually, the original POH for our "67 Super III did suggest one notch of
    flaps for short field take off. They even went so far as to say that two
    notches might be even better. The latest revision of the POH makes no
    mention of this. I suspect it is probably a legal issue. I would
    definitely use one notch for a short field takeoff and if I had clear area
    ahead and a very short runway, probably two notches. Have tried three and
    it pops up like a cork. Problem there is trying to hold it down in ground
    effect.

    John



    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Paul Sergeant
    Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:35 PM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24



    can anybody shed some light on the short field take off procedure in
    the POH for my 1983 C23? Notably the fact that there really isn't one?

    When I was ferrying my newly bought baby Beech home last year, I
    dropped off my brother-in-law at Ellington CT, which has an 1800ft
    runway. Before landing I checked the POH to make sure I could get out
    again! I don't have the POH here, but I think it said about 1300ft was
    required at the weight and temp we had. I did 2 T/O there, and both
    were "interesting", especially for a new Sundowner pilot. It seemed I
    used almost the whole runway before lifting off in the recommended no-
    flap take off. The 25ft tall tree 25 ft from the threshold and on the
    centerline added some spice to the landings. Thank goodness there was
    a gap between the 50ft trees on the take off end!

    So why doesn't the POH call for 1 notch of flaps in a short field T/O
    (as I was trained to do on C****a 150's)? I have tried it from my home
    field with a 7000ft runway, and it takes about 400-500ft off the runway
    roll, reducing lift off airspeed by about 10kts. Initial climb isn't
    bad either - about the same as a standard no-flaps lift off.

    Curious Paul.
    N6349C, McKinney TX





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  4. #4
    Orbiting Earth Left the Solar System
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Just outside Nawlins
    Posts
    2,468

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    There is another method and it's NOT in the POH.

    It's something some of us have come to call the Mouservator. I
    learned if from other Mouse drivers.

    I have a '63 Mouse with only two notches of flaps, 15 degrees and 30
    degrees, so you'll have to modify. I start the takeoff roll with
    one notch (15 degrees), when I hit 65 MPH (not knots) I pull full
    flaps (30 degrees). She goes up like an elevator. The idea is NOT
    to stay in ground effect but to keep the airspeed at 65 mph. Be
    sure you're comfortable with your plane at slow speed. You're
    gaining altitude but giving up on forward progress, exactly the idea
    in this situation. Try it when you're comfortable with your plane
    and have lots of room to work with. Don't retract flaps until after
    you're up high enough, cleared obstacle and have then gained some
    airspeed.

    Cloyd

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sergeant"
    <pilot2724@...> wrote:
    >
    > can anybody shed some light on the short field take off procedure
    in
    > the POH for my 1983 C23? Notably the fact that there really isn't
    one?
    >
    > When I was ferrying my newly bought baby Beech home last year, I
    > dropped off my brother-in-law at Ellington CT, which has an 1800ft
    > runway. Before landing I checked the POH to make sure I could get
    out
    > again! I don't have the POH here, but I think it said about
    1300ft was
    > required at the weight and temp we had. I did 2 T/O there, and
    both
    > were "interesting", especially for a new Sundowner pilot. It
    seemed I
    > used almost the whole runway before lifting off in the recommended
    no-
    > flap take off. The 25ft tall tree 25 ft from the threshold and on
    the
    > centerline added some spice to the landings. Thank goodness there
    was
    > a gap between the 50ft trees on the take off end!
    >
    > So why doesn't the POH call for 1 notch of flaps in a short field
    T/O
    > (as I was trained to do on C****a 150's)? I have tried it from my
    home
    > field with a 7000ft runway, and it takes about 400-500ft off the
    runway
    > roll, reducing lift off airspeed by about 10kts. Initial climb
    isn't
    > bad either - about the same as a standard no-flaps lift off.
    >
    > Curious Paul.
    > N6349C, McKinney TX
    >




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  5. #5

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Hi Paul

    My field is 2000 ft and an elevation of 3400 asl. When I take off I
    accelerate to 50 mph then reach down and pull on 25 degree's of flap. It
    usually climbs like an elevator

    Barry

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Show Your Messenger Buddies How You Really Feel
    http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  6. #6

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Mine (A23-24) calls for 1 notch for a normal take off. Unless the plane
    is heavy, it pops up and levitates. That makes for a fairly short
    takeoff. On a hot day at 3000 ft, and gross wt. I've used 1500 plus
    feet of runway with 1 notch. I would consider that to be about as short
    as it gets for a Musketeer.

    Joe


    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  7. #7

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Hi Joe,

    So did our first POH, a very slim (maybe a inch) thick handbook. The later
    revision which I believe was somewhere around 1984 and is about an inch
    thick makes no mention of flaps for a short field takeoff. They definitely
    make a difference.

    John Waterman

    N3669Q

    1967 A23-24



    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of Joe Ashment
    Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:18 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re:Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24



    Mine (A23-24) calls for 1 notch for a normal take off. Unless the plane
    is heavy, it pops up and levitates. That makes for a fairly short
    takeoff. On a hot day at 3000 ft, and gross wt. I've used 1500 plus
    feet of runway with 1 notch. I would consider that to be about as short
    as it gets for a Musketeer.

    Joe





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  8. #8
    Guest
    Guest

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Hi Paul -

    I had a Sport (150hp) for over three years and I always used 1 or mostly 2
    notches for takeoff, and three every time for landing.

    Most checklists say: 'Flaps as required' for the T/O. Flaps are just one
    more control for your use!

    Have somebody mark some takeoffs w/ slight backpressure w/ none, 1, or 2
    notches. You will be surprised.

    That said - one thing that does NOT work the same as your C150 is SOFT
    Field takeoff - I do NOT recommend full aft stick to raise the nose!

    This seems to put all the weight on the mains, and they feel like they
    'dig in' - like pulling a plow!

    Once again - 2-3 notches (3 if it's REAL soft) and slight back pressure.

    Then - DON'T retract ANY flaps until you are clear of obsticles - and then
    ONE notch at a time!

    The Musketeer climbs great on 1 notch (even up to cruise - don't ask) and
    pretty good on 2, so leave them in there until you can level off above the
    trees, etc.!

    Bill Howard
    xBeechSportBill



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  9. #9
    Guest
    Guest

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    I agree with almost everything I've read here. I currently fly a
    1978 Sundowner with 180hp. I also have both versions of the POH and
    since I "grew up" in a Cherokee 140, I like flaps on takeoff. I fly
    off a 7000 foot runway and still use 10 degrees even when light. As
    soon as I break ground, I push the nose to hold in ground effect at
    about 15 feet and ease the flaps out when speed comes.

    On short fields, (my annuals are done at an airport with 2200 feet of
    narrow, uneven pavement) I use about fifteen degrees and like stated
    in earlier posts, I pull at 60 and hold the airplane at 65-70 through
    the climbout. Unlike my Cherokee, the takeoff performance in a
    properly flown Sundowner will ALWAYS exceed the performance listed in
    the POH.

    For soft fields, I start clean and trim the plane very slightly nose-
    down from my normal takeoff position. As the momentum starts, I
    apply gentle backpressure on the yoke to lighten the nosewheel. At
    50, I push the flaps in to 15 degrees (takes about three seconds) and
    by the time they hit 15 degrees, I'm airborne and properly trimmed
    with just a bit of backpressure on the yoke. My flap control doesn't
    have steps at 10,20,and 40 like the Cessnas do so I have to "time"
    mentally how long to hold the lever down. After two or three tries,
    it becomes second nature.

    Definitely don't fly the mouse like you would a Cherokee or Cessna
    150. If you do, eventually you'll get bitten.

    Tom Siler
    Columbus OH
    N5255M



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

  10. #10

    Short Field T/O in Beech 23/24

    Paul, A group of musketeer pilots meet every year a
    Gastons. A grass strip with a big hill off the end of
    it. My musketeer is the low powered sport. With only
    150 HP and the 'conventional' wisdom of staying in
    ground effect to build airspeed then climb on out, the
    first 2 years, I had to turn right and go around the
    hill while my higher horse powered friends motored
    right on out over the hill. The third time there, I
    had a conversation with Mike Rellihan about short
    field and climbing out. He advised me to continue
    using my 1 notch of flaps as I had been doing, but to
    hold my airspeed at 70 miles per hour for the duration
    of the climb out. I did that, and it was like flying
    a totally different plane (one with twice the motor).
    I went out for the first time over the same hill that
    everyone else was going out over. That with a slight
    tail wind too...
    Don't forget, you don't want to retract your flaps
    until you can build your airspeed to about 85 - 90.

    Hope it helps.
    Jay
    --- Paul Sergeant <pilot2724@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > can anybody shed some light on the short field take
    > off procedure in
    > the POH for my 1983 C23? Notably the fact that
    > there really isn't one?
    >
    > When I was ferrying my newly bought baby Beech home
    > last year, I
    > dropped off my brother-in-law at Ellington CT, which
    > has an 1800ft
    > runway. Before landing I checked the POH to make
    > sure I could get out
    > again! I don't have the POH here, but I think it
    > said about 1300ft was
    > required at the weight and temp we had. I did 2 T/O
    > there, and both
    > were "interesting", especially for a new Sundowner
    > pilot. It seemed I
    > used almost the whole runway before lifting off in
    > the recommended no-
    > flap take off. The 25ft tall tree 25 ft from the
    > threshold and on the
    > centerline added some spice to the landings. Thank
    > goodness there was
    > a gap between the 50ft trees on the take off end!
    >
    > So why doesn't the POH call for 1 notch of flaps in
    > a short field T/O
    > (as I was trained to do on C****a 150's)? I have
    > tried it from my home
    > field with a 7000ft runway, and it takes about
    > 400-500ft off the runway
    > roll, reducing lift off airspeed by about 10kts.
    > Initial climb isn't
    > bad either - about the same as a standard no-flaps
    > lift off.
    >
    > Curious Paul.
    > N6349C, McKinney TX
    >
    >
    >



    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
    Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
    http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=on...ifts&cs=bz


    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:musketeermail-digest@yahoogroups.com
    mailto:musketeermail-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    -----------------------------------------
    This message was automatically imported from BAC-Mail or the Musketeer Mail list. Replies might not be seen by the original author.

Similar Threads

  1. Short Field Fun
    By drwhite in forum Fly-Ins
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-03-2015, 08:16 PM
  2. short field and/or heavy
    By 27whiskey in forum Fly-Ins
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-01-1970, 12:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO