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Thread: Instrument currecy question

  1. #1

    Instrument currecy question

    I'm nearly done with instrumemnt training, but have a question
    regarding maintaining currency (assume FAA rules as I'm in Texas).
    Let's suppose that after I have my rating, I go up in my IFR
    Sundowner to keep currency w/o a safety pilot in actual IFR.

    The clouds are from 500 ft AGL (runway touchdown height is 600ft MSL)
    with tops at 2300ft MSL. I do the full ILS approach with the PT at
    3000 ft (in the clear), and don't enter the clouds until established
    on the glideslope just before the OM. I break out at 500ft AGL, and
    land.

    For the purposes of currency, is that an instrument approach under
    actual conditions, even though less than of the approach was in IMC?

    What if the cloud base is 2000ft AGL, so only the PT and initial
    glide slope intercept was in IMC, but almost all the descent was in
    VMC (and the field was VFR)?

    I don't recall ever reading a rule on this subject, only that 6
    approaches must be made under actual or simulated IFR in the prior 6
    calendar months.

    regards,

    Paul (N6349C)




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  2. #2

    Instrument currecy question

    Paul,

    It was always my understanding that if you fly any segment of the approach
    in actual IFR then it's an IFR approach. I will be interested to read what
    others have to say.

    Dale (IXD)
    N24022, '77 Sundowner

    At 09:48 AM 8/22/2007, Paul Sergeant wrote:

    >For the purposes of currency, is that an instrument approach under
    >actual conditions, even though less than of the approach was in IMC?
    >
    >What if the cloud base is 2000ft AGL, so only the PT and initial
    >glide slope intercept was in IMC, but almost all the descent was in
    >VMC (and the field was VFR)?




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  3. #3

    Instrument currecy question

    Good Morning All:

    I have always understood that any IFR approach for currency must be
    flown to minimums for that approach. I do not believe it matters whether
    the approach began in IMC, but it must end at minimums. Keep in mind that
    minimums include ceiling as well as visibility. You can have a ceiling
    above minimums but visibility at minimums and still log the approach for
    currency. I will be interested in comments on this topic.

    Ed Mills
    9318S




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  4. #4

    Instrument currecy question

    I don't believe that is correct. I think that all that is required is that some portion of the approach be in IMC. Few of us will ever fly to absolute minimums and most of us should not even try. I think that any approach where you need an instrument approach to get to the airport from altitude should count. Where you break out at 2000 AGL and see VFR traffic in the pattern should not.
    Willis

    ----- Original Message ----
    From: ED MILLS <jemillslaw@hotmail.com>
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:41:25 AM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re:Instrument currecy question

    Good Morning All:

    I have always understood that any IFR approach for currency must be
    flown to minimums for that approach. I do not believe it matters whether
    the approach began in IMC, but it must end at minimums. Keep in mind that
    minimums include ceiling as well as visibility. You can have a ceiling
    above minimums but visibility at minimums and still log the approach for
    currency. I will be interested in comments on this topic.

    Ed Mills
    9318S




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  5. #5
    Guest
    Guest

    Instrument currecy question

    I don't believe that to be true Ed. I think if all you do is simulated
    approaches then they "should" be flown to minimums, BUT let's take a real
    life scenario. I'm a part 135 freight dog and charter pilot flying 3 or 4
    days/nights a week and fly actual IFR all the time, 5 legs each night I fly
    freight, so far this week because of stormy Midwest weather I have flown 5
    actual IFR approaches but only one close to minimums. Every 6 months I fly
    quite a few approaches however not very many are to approach minimums in
    real life, some close, some easy... what you are saying is let's say I fly
    50 actual IFR approaches in 6 months but if only 5 were to minimums I
    wouldn't be IFR current, I don't think so. there is no way I have to go out
    with a safety pilot and do one more to minimums to be current. Do keep in
    mind however that you also need a hold and navigation to navaids every 6
    months.. Now that's the way I think it is BUT to be practical, if all
    anybody ever flies is practice IFR then by all means they should be flown to
    minimums. But personally I don't think that's enough either, every IFR pilot
    should do some actual IFR flying as well, there is a HUGE difference between
    flying under a hood and flying in actual. I personally know a IFR current
    private pilot that has never been in a cloud as PIC even during training, he
    would only take a lesson in nice weather, that's sad and an accident waiting
    to happen..



    Randy

    Just sold N4345W







    Good Morning All:

    I have always understood that any IFR approach for currency must be
    flown to minimums for that approach. I do not believe it matters whether
    the approach began in IMC, but it must end at minimums. Keep in mind that
    minimums include ceiling as well as visibility. You can have a ceiling
    above minimums but visibility at minimums and still log the approach for
    currency. I will be interested in comments on this topic.

    Ed Mills
    9318S





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  6. #6

    Instrument currecy question

    After I posted the original question, I got a response from my instructor. This is what he wrote:

    "This whole area is left undefined in the regs. Whatever you put in your logbook, is considered correct and legal once you sign the page. There is no way anyone can dispute what you write in your logbook (unless there is another pilot with you). So, it's really up to you how to classify each approach.

    My personal practice is to call it an actual approach if I fly any portion after the FAF in IMC. It is those last couple hundred feet that are the most difficult and critical. I think that is what counts most. I also don't ever do the bare minimum approaches required. I try to stay 'more than current' at all times. I know from many years of experience what it takes for me to be safe, and I think that is what the FAA is counting on from all experienced pilots. These rules are really aimed at new IFR pilots who don't know yet what it takes for them to remain really current.

    The most important thing is to always keep good records including signing each page, showing that you indeed meet currency requirements, so you will be covered in the event of an accident or incident. This will satisfy both the FAA and the insurance company."

    Seems like he agrees with the "any part flown in IMC makes it an approach in actual" camp, but notes it is not defined anywhere in the regulations.

    best regards,

    Paul (N6349C)



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  7. #7

    Instrument currecy question

    Hi Ed,

    There are no minimum altitudes for instrument approaches to count towards
    currency. All that matters is that you are in IMC into the approach. You can
    break out at 1000 ft and it still counts. By the same token, many of your
    practice approaches will be broken off before you reach minimums by the
    tower to avoid VFR traffic. Remember that you need more than just the 6
    approaches for currency. You must also do tracking and interception. If you
    do not renew your currency in 6 months, you can still do it in the next 6
    months with a safety pilot (no real approaches). After the second 6 months,
    you need the proficiency ride.

    John









    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of ED MILLS
    Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:41 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re:Instrument currecy question



    Good Morning All:

    I have always understood that any IFR approach for currency must be
    flown to minimums for that approach. I do not believe it matters whether
    the approach began in IMC, but it must end at minimums. Keep in mind that
    minimums include ceiling as well as visibility. You can have a ceiling
    above minimums but visibility at minimums and still log the approach for
    currency. I will be interested in comments on this topic.

    Ed Mills
    9318S





    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  8. #8
    You also need a hold to remain current.

    Jeff Ryndak
    CFII MEI

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