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Thread: Hartzel Prop AD - Sierra

  1. #1
    Guest
    Guest

    Hartzel Prop AD - Sierra

    Well it seems that now after almost 3 months in the Hanger our AME
    has just realized that the Prop Hub is subject to the AD that was
    issued last September. The ECI inspection was quoted at $675 +
    the "Paperwork" + tax, etc I am told it is going to be close to $1000
    CDN to do this every 100 hours. I see some places that do it for
    around $100-150 but we cannot get the plane to them so I am somewhat
    stuck with the lousy service we have at our homebase. The other
    option is to get the Hub replaced at a Prop Shop with a B suffex hub.
    The one near Toronto (Hope Aero) quoted $4,700 to replace the hub +
    Shipping and Tax = over $5k. I see some that have done it in the US
    for half that price and included the Prop Overhaul. What have you
    guys seen in terms of prices and has anyone had a good experience
    getting this done? I am even considering a ferry permit if I can get
    a shop that can do a fast turn around and is located at an airport
    that is easy to fly into. Has anyone else gone this route and were
    you able to get a ferry permit with this AD?

    Does anyone have a suggested Prop Shop that can do this at a
    reasonable cost? (I don't think 5K is reasonable for a hub nor is 1K
    reasonable for the inspection.) If it is in the North East and I
    cannot get the ferry permit I may be able to drive it there, if not I
    will drive across the border into New York State and ship it from
    there. Suggestions on shipping might be helpful also.

    Thanks in advance,

    Bruce Dwyer
    C-GMTT



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  2. #2

    Hartzell Hubs

    I suppose the author may not see this reply. It is truly unfortunate that he or his AP/IA was not tracking this AD sooner. If he is not a BAC member this points out the benefits of being here and reading the forums. This issue was discussed in detail earlier this year and during the summer.

    Hartzell expired the half price offer on the hubs on or about September 1. I had two of these to replace and did the work in July just because of the significant cost increase coming shortly.

    My two wound up being about 6.5K counting the two hubs and doing a reseal on both props, removal and reinstall. It would have been another 3500 if I had waited until after the half price deadline.

    If your blades are beyond 7 years, I think, then you can't even get by without replacing those.

    The shop that did my work is in California so won't do you much good. If I were he, I would do everythign I could to see if Hartzell would honor the original half price deal.

    Dan Jonas

  3. #3

    Hartzel Prop AD - Sierra

    Bruce,

    Sounds like your prop shop is trying to hold you hostage. I'd wouldn't do business with them and would tell all my flying friends not to do business with them. Call around in the US to some nearby shops. Many times a NDT inspector will bring the equipment to your airplane. The charges are a little higher, but you might work a deal. We got the guy to come to our airport for an extra $50.

    Marty Vanover

    dwyer_bruce <dwyer_bruce@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Well it seems that now after almost 3 months in the Hanger our AME
    has just realized that the Prop Hub is subject to the AD that was
    issued last September. The ECI inspection was quoted at $675 +
    the "Paperwork" + tax, etc I am told it is going to be close to $1000
    CDN to do this every 100 hours. I see some places that do it for
    around $100-150 but we cannot get the plane to them so I am somewhat
    stuck with the lousy service we have at our homebase. The other
    option is to get the Hub replaced at a Prop Shop with a B suffex hub.
    The one near Toronto (Hope Aero) quoted $4,700 to replace the hub +
    Shipping and Tax = over $5k. I see some that have done it in the US
    for half that price and included the Prop Overhaul. What have you
    guys seen in terms of prices and has anyone had a good experience
    getting this done? I am even considering a ferry permit if I can get
    a shop that can do a fast turn around and is located at an airport
    that is easy to fly into. Has anyone else gone this route and were
    you able to get a ferry permit with this AD?

    Does anyone have a suggested Prop Shop that can do this at a
    reasonable cost? (I don't think 5K is reasonable for a hub nor is 1K
    reasonable for the inspection.) If it is in the North East and I
    cannot get the ferry permit I may be able to drive it there, if not I
    will drive across the border into New York State and ship it from
    there. Suggestions on shipping might be helpful also.

    Thanks in advance,

    Bruce Dwyer
    C-GMTT






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  4. #4

    Cost

    Marty,

    I agree that $1K is excessive, however, I am curious what you wound up paying. My Duchess cost me over $600 for two propellers and I did one inspection to get me to a convenient time to change the hubs.

    I am a little concerned about the $150 inspections. The guy who did mine is an expert in the field and he indicated that there are people doing these who are not as qualified as he thinks they should be. Also, most inspectors will not pull and replace the spinners and if they are doing it with them on, they are not doing it correctly, so you need your AP handy for that part. Assuming, which I'm not sure you should, that the hubs are prone to the defect, you want the inspection done correctly. There are few things more dangerous than throwing a blade.

    There are really two crimes commited here and several perpetrators. First, the AD should never have been issued. There were, to my knowledge, no failures of the original hubs in regular service. The failures were in aircraft used for hard aerobatics and one in a hub that was reused after going through a crash. This was nothing more than a Hartzell legal department effort to remove the hubs from the market and the FAA was complicite.

    An additional crime was the removal of the half price offer on the B suffix hubs by Hartzell. As far as I am concerned, the half price offer should be in perpetuity to anyone flying with a hub suject to the AD.

    Dan Jonas

  5. #5

    Re: Hartzel Prop AD - Sierra

    Bruce: My 1976 sierra is in the shop for its annual and is awaiting return of the prop from the prop shop. I was quoted $400 for the ECI plus $300 to remove, ship and reinstall it. Not much different from your quotes. I chose to go ahead and replace the hub plus overhaul the prop for about $5,400. You are right. That's way more than it should be. The reason I chose to replace the hub instead of the periodic inspections is that I read the AD to say 100 hours or annual inspection whichever came first. That meant that the ECI would have to be done at every annual inspection since I don't fly that much anyway. Either way I was going to pay and I figured I would spend it all at once and be done with it. Sorry I don't have any better news for you.
    Mike Nielsen
    McCook, NE

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    Well it seems that now after almost 3 months in the Hanger our AME
    has just realized that the Prop Hub is subject to the AD that was
    issued last September. The ECI inspection was quoted at $675 +
    the "Paperwork" + tax, etc I am told it is going to be close to $1000
    CDN to do this every 100 hours. I see some places that do it for
    around $100-150 but we cannot get the plane to them so I am somewhat
    stuck with the lousy service we have at our homebase. The other
    option is to get the Hub replaced at a Prop Shop with a B suffex hub.
    The one near Toronto (Hope Aero) quoted $4,700 to replace the hub +
    Shipping and Tax = over $5k. I see some that have done it in the US
    for half that price and included the Prop Overhaul. What have you
    guys seen in terms of prices and has anyone had a good experience
    getting this done? I am even considering a ferry permit if I can get
    a shop that can do a fast turn around and is located at an airport
    that is easy to fly into. Has anyone else gone this route and were
    you able to get a ferry permit with this AD?

    Does anyone have a suggested Prop Shop that can do this at a
    reasonable cost? (I don't think 5K is reasonable for a hub nor is 1K
    reasonable for the inspection.) If it is in the North East and I
    cannot get the ferry permit I may be able to drive it there, if not I
    will drive across the border into New York State and ship it from
    there. Suggestions on shipping might be helpful also.

    Thanks in advance,

    Bruce Dwyer
    C-GMTT



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

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  6. #6
    Dan,

    Sorry I didn't answer your question on the prop inspection. $300 by Canyon State in PHX/TUC. I provided them a copy of the AD and Service Bulletin. As we are currently in annual inspection, I took the time to read it. It is a NEW revision. Adds just a few thing, mostly left turning propellers. HOWEVER, it extends the 1/2 price of a new hub to the next overhaul or 2011 which ever comes first. I guess someone may have been seriously considering legal action against Hartzell.

    Marty Vanover
    Phoenix, Az.

    P.S. FYI a page from the SB follows:

    QUOTE:
    HARTZELL PROPELLER INC.
    SERVICE BULLETIN APPENDIX
    HC-SBA-61-269 Propeller - Hub Inspection
    Propeller Model: ( )HC-( )2Y( )-( ) Document No. HC-SB-61-269 Revision 3
    Component Part Number: Various Date of Issue: April 18/05 Rev. Date: Sep 17/07

    4. Special Pricing Program

    A. Hartzell will allow purchase of a "B" suffix serial number hub at a 50 percent discount off list price when the propeller is overhauled in accordance with the recommended overhaul intervals (calendar and operating hours) as specified in Hartzell Service Letter HC-SL-61-61Y.

    (1) An affected propeller that has been overhauled previously in accordance with Hartzell Service Letter HC-SL-61-61Y is eligible for a specially priced hub until next recommended overhaul or April 30, 2011, whichever occurs first. To qualify, the following documentation must be submitted to Hartzell:

    NOTE: This special pricing program expires at the next recommended
    overhaul interval in accordance with Hartzell Service Letter
    HC-SL-61-61Y or April 30, 2011, whichever occurs first.

    (a) Copy of maintenance release tag, FAA Form 8130-3 or JAA Form 1
    indicating current propeller overhaul or a copy of applicable log book
    pages which must include date, TSN and specify that current propeller
    overhaul was performed.
    (b) Copy of applicable log book pages which must include date, TSN and
    showing that a previous propeller overhaul was performed in accordance
    with Hartzell Service Letter HC-SL-61-61Y.
    (c) A completed Service Bulletin Compliance Form (located on page 7 of this Appendix).
    (d) Facility overhauling the propeller assembly must retire the unserviceable hub from service in accordance with Hartzell Standard Practices Manual 202A (61-01-02).
    UNQUOTE:

  7. #7
    Marty,
    Thanks for locating (and pointing out) the revised date for the subsidised hubs. My prop was overhauled two weeks before the AD came out.

    This may be a response to the threat of legals, but equally it could be a marketing response to the fact that the former Hartzell owners are heading to McC in droves.
    Either way, it changes the dynamics of the 2blade vs 3blade decision again.

  8. #8
    My A & P priced a Black Mac for our 1976 Sierra at over $9,000. It wasn't too hard to decide to go for the $5,400 new hub and overhaul of the Hartzell prop.

  9. #9
    I have a 1977 Sierra and at first my thought was to go to the Black Mac. But when I see it also comes with speed and power restrictions I am now having my doubts that this is way I will go. The restriction to avoid power above 26" MP tells me there is a weakness there that is to be avoided. Yet everytime you take off you will be violating that admonition. I am not an engineer, but when I pointed this situation out to someone who is, he stated that each time you transistion through that zone you will aggrevate that weakness.

    Patrick Sheridan
    N18950 [/i]

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