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Thread: Sundowner is down

  1. #1

    Sundowner is down

    Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't gotten around to increasing the hull value.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: atpturner@earthlink.net
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:37:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
    Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner is down


    Steve:

    Very sorry to hear about your Sundowner. You're right...at least no one was
    hurt.

    Although it differs from one carrier to another, the general rule for "totaling"
    an airplane is that if the repair cost plus the exisiting "salvage value" of the
    airplane exceed the insured value of the aircraft, then the insurance company
    writes you a check for the hull amount (less any deductible) and takes
    possession of the salvage (for resale). This illustrates the hazard of
    underinsuring the hull value, or not increasing insured value when you retrofit
    with expensive avionics (which often survive a mishap to be part of the "salvage
    value").

    The relatively high cost of parts for the relatively low-cost Aero Club-series
    airplanes mean they are very likely to be totaled following a mishap also, even
    if they are insured for a good approximation of their current value.

    In the final analysis, though, no one got hurt and you'll likely have some
    insurance funds to look for a replacement.

    Again, sorry to hear about your partner's experience.

    Thomas P. Turner
    Mastery Flight Training, Inc.
    www.thomaspturner.com
    ________________________________
    __________________________________________________ ______________________




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    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  2. #2

    Sundowner is down

    You mean you can't take out your expensive avionics for your next
    airplane? If you hadn't increased the insured value of the airplane,
    then how can insurance company take your good avionics? Do we have an
    insurance adjuster here who can shed some light on this topic.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~
    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio
    Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't gotten
    around to increasing the hull value.
    >





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  3. #3

    Sundowner is down

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio
    Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    gotten around to increasing the hull value.
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: atpturner@e...
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:37:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner is down
    >
    >
    > Steve:
    >
    > Very sorry to hear about your Sundowner. You're right...at least
    no one was
    > hurt.
    >
    > Although it differs from one carrier to another, the general rule
    for "totaling"
    > an airplane is that if the repair cost plus the exisiting "salvage
    value" of the
    > airplane exceed the insured value of the aircraft, then the
    insurance company
    > writes you a check for the hull amount (less any deductible) and
    takes
    > possession of the salvage (for resale). This illustrates the
    hazard of
    > underinsuring the hull value, or not increasing insured value when
    you retrofit
    > with expensive avionics (which often survive a mishap to be part
    of the "salvage
    > value").
    >
    > The relatively high cost of parts for the relatively low-cost Aero
    Club-series
    > airplanes mean they are very likely to be totaled following a
    mishap also, even
    > if they are insured for a good approximation of their current
    value.
    >
    > In the final analysis, though, no one got hurt and you'll likely
    have some
    > insurance funds to look for a replacement.
    >
    > Again, sorry to hear about your partner's experience.
    >
    > Thomas P. Turner
    > Mastery Flight Training, Inc.
    > www.thomaspturner.com
    > ________________________________
    >
    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    ___
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    It depends on when the avionics were upgraded. Did you just renew
    your policy after the upgrades were completed (and chose not to
    increase the value at that time?). If you just installed the
    avionics (after your policy was renewed) and you had this mishap (a
    very short time after the installation), you might be able to talk
    to your insurance company to see if they will allow for the increase
    (some policies do, some don't).

    Ray Seif
    '73 Beech B19




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  4. #4

    Sundowner is down

    I would recommend removing them before there are any photographs taken by the insurance company.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Ray
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 PM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Sundowner is down


    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio
    Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    gotten around to increasing the hull value.
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: atpturner@e...
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:37:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner is down
    >
    >
    > Steve:
    >
    > Very sorry to hear about your Sundowner. You're right...at least
    no one was
    > hurt.
    >
    > Although it differs from one carrier to another, the general rule
    for "totaling"
    > an airplane is that if the repair cost plus the exisiting "salvage
    value" of the
    > airplane exceed the insured value of the aircraft, then the
    insurance company
    > writes you a check for the hull amount (less any deductible) and
    takes
    > possession of the salvage (for resale). This illustrates the
    hazard of
    > underinsuring the hull value, or not increasing insured value when
    you retrofit
    > with expensive avionics (which often survive a mishap to be part
    of the "salvage
    > value").
    >
    > The relatively high cost of parts for the relatively low-cost Aero
    Club-series
    > airplanes mean they are very likely to be totaled following a
    mishap also, even
    > if they are insured for a good approximation of their current
    value.
    >
    > In the final analysis, though, no one got hurt and you'll likely
    have some
    > insurance funds to look for a replacement.
    >
    > Again, sorry to hear about your partner's experience.
    >
    > Thomas P. Turner
    > Mastery Flight Training, Inc.
    > www.thomaspturner.com
    > ________________________________
    >
    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    ___
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    It depends on when the avionics were upgraded. Did you just renew
    your policy after the upgrades were completed (and chose not to
    increase the value at that time?). If you just installed the
    avionics (after your policy was renewed) and you had this mishap (a
    very short time after the installation), you might be able to talk
    to your insurance company to see if they will allow for the increase
    (some policies do, some don't).

    Ray Seif
    '73 Beech B19




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org





    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  5. #5

    Sundowner is down

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Normandy"
    <thegeekynerd@h...> wrote:
    > I would recommend removing them before there are any photographs
    taken by the insurance company.

    Wrong,

    that would be insurance fraud. The avionics are a part of the a/c
    and within the logs. The insurance company owns that a/c if they
    total it. If you like the avionics, you might be able to work with
    the adjusters to buy them back (sounds odd, but they do own them if
    the a/c is totaled). You can go back to your insurance company and
    see if they will allow for the increased value based on the NEWLY
    installed avionics. If it has been a while and you just didn't
    report the avionics to the insurance company, then you might be out
    the added value of the avionics.

    Ray Seif
    '73 Beech B19

    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Ray
    > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 PM
    > Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Sundowner is down
    >
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    > avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B
    Audio
    > Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    > gotten around to increasing the hull value.
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: atpturner@e...
    > > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:37:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
    > > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner is down
    > >
    > >
    > > Steve:
    > >
    > > Very sorry to hear about your Sundowner. You're right...at
    least
    > no one was
    > > hurt.
    > >
    > > Although it differs from one carrier to another, the general
    rule
    > for "totaling"
    > > an airplane is that if the repair cost plus the
    exisiting "salvage
    > value" of the
    > > airplane exceed the insured value of the aircraft, then the
    > insurance company
    > > writes you a check for the hull amount (less any deductible)
    and
    > takes
    > > possession of the salvage (for resale). This illustrates the
    > hazard of
    > > underinsuring the hull value, or not increasing insured value
    when
    > you retrofit
    > > with expensive avionics (which often survive a mishap to be
    part
    > of the "salvage
    > > value").
    > >
    > > The relatively high cost of parts for the relatively low-cost
    Aero
    > Club-series
    > > airplanes mean they are very likely to be totaled following a
    > mishap also, even
    > > if they are insured for a good approximation of their current
    > value.
    > >
    > > In the final analysis, though, no one got hurt and you'll
    likely
    > have some
    > > insurance funds to look for a replacement.
    > >
    > > Again, sorry to hear about your partner's experience.
    > >
    > > Thomas P. Turner
    > > Mastery Flight Training, Inc.
    > > www.thomaspturner.com
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    >
    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    > ___
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    > Musketeer series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > It depends on when the avionics were upgraded. Did you just
    renew
    > your policy after the upgrades were completed (and chose not to
    > increase the value at that time?). If you just installed the
    > avionics (after your policy was renewed) and you had this mishap
    (a
    > very short time after the installation), you might be able to
    talk
    > to your insurance company to see if they will allow for the
    increase
    > (some policies do, some don't).
    >
    > Ray Seif
    > '73 Beech B19
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/
    >
    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
    of Service.
    >
    >
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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  6. #6

    Sundowner is down

    I'm an engineer and not an adjuster but work with them regularly.
    Basically, when you insure the plane, it includes whatever is part of
    the plane and the avionics are bolted in. Plus, as far as the
    insurance companies are concerned, the avionics are a large portion of
    the salvage value. IF IF IF you just bolted something in, you might
    be able to sweet-talk to the adjuster and IF he is feeling good, he
    might not see you take it. However, one of the first things he will
    need to do for his job is take LOTS of photos and the panel is one of
    the photos his loss manager is going to first look at. If there is an
    empty hole, he could rain all over the adjuster.

    Bob
    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "sundowner1982"
    <o_iftikhar@b...> wrote:
    > You mean you can't take out your expensive avionics for your next
    > airplane? If you hadn't increased the insured value of the airplane,
    > then how can insurance company take your good avionics? Do we have
    an
    > insurance adjuster here who can shed some light on this topic.
    >
    > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    > avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio
    > Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    gotten
    > around to increasing the hull value.
    > >




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  7. #7

    Sundowner is down

    Bob et All
    My insurance agent was willing to work with me when I installed an
    autopilot. When I announced this addition, he gave me a choice to insure
    the autopilot
    immediately (and raise the premiums accordingly), or delay the addition
    of the autopilot coverage until the renewall date of the policy. In the
    event of a claim
    during this period, I will be allowed to remove the autopilot. The key
    is to let your insurance agent know what you're doing so that there are
    no surprises.
    Bill Passinos
    N2327L
    West Palm Beach, Fl

    On Tue, 17 May 2005 19:54:32 -0000 "Bob Swaim" <dswaim1119@comcast.net>
    writes:
    I'm an engineer and not an adjuster but work with them regularly.
    Basically, when you insure the plane, it includes whatever is part of
    the plane and the avionics are bolted in. Plus, as far as the
    insurance companies are concerned, the avionics are a large portion of
    the salvage value. IF IF IF you just bolted something in, you might
    be able to sweet-talk to the adjuster and IF he is feeling good, he
    might not see you take it. However, one of the first things he will
    need to do for his job is take LOTS of photos and the panel is one of
    the photos his loss manager is going to first look at. If there is an
    empty hole, he could rain all over the adjuster.

    Bob
    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "sundowner1982"
    <o_iftikhar@b...> wrote:
    > You mean you can't take out your expensive avionics for your next
    > airplane? If you hadn't increased the insured value of the airplane,
    > then how can insurance company take your good avionics? Do we have
    an
    > insurance adjuster here who can shed some light on this topic.
    >
    > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    > avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B Audio
    > Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    gotten
    > around to increasing the hull value.
    > >




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!

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  8. #8

    Sundowner is down

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, Bill Passinos <bpassinos@j...>
    wrote:
    > Bob et All
    > My insurance agent was willing to work with me when I installed an
    > autopilot. When I announced this addition, he gave me a choice to
    insure
    > the autopilot
    > immediately (and raise the premiums accordingly), or delay the
    addition
    > of the autopilot coverage until the renewall date of the policy.
    In the
    > event of a claim
    > during this period, I will be allowed to remove the autopilot.
    The key
    > is to let your insurance agent know what you're doing so that
    there are
    > no surprises.
    > Bill Passinos
    > N2327L
    > West Palm Beach, Fl
    >
    > On Tue, 17 May 2005 19:54:32 -0000 "Bob Swaim" <dswaim1119@c...>
    > writes:
    > I'm an engineer and not an adjuster but work with them regularly.
    > Basically, when you insure the plane, it includes whatever is part
    of
    > the plane and the avionics are bolted in. Plus, as far as the
    > insurance companies are concerned, the avionics are a large
    portion of
    > the salvage value. IF IF IF you just bolted something in, you
    might
    > be able to sweet-talk to the adjuster and IF he is feeling good,
    he
    > might not see you take it. However, one of the first things he
    will
    > need to do for his job is take LOTS of photos and the panel is one
    of
    > the photos his loss manager is going to first look at. If there
    is an
    > empty hole, he could rain all over the adjuster.
    >
    > Bob
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "sundowner1982"
    > <o_iftikhar@b...> wrote:
    > > You mean you can't take out your expensive avionics for your
    next
    > > airplane? If you hadn't increased the insured value of the
    airplane,
    > > then how can insurance company take your good avionics? Do we
    have
    > an
    > > insurance adjuster here who can shed some light on this topic.
    > >
    > > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > > > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    > > avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B
    Audio
    > > Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    > gotten
    > > around to increasing the hull value.
    > > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > series!
    >
    > www.beechaeroclub.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
    Service.
    >
    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    Bill,

    I would be very weary of an agent that told you that you can remove
    an autopilot if you were to have a claim. Get it in writing because
    it doesn't happen. If sounds like someone is trying to get you off
    their line and rolling the dice that you won't actually have a
    claim.

    If you install the autopilot and call your insurance broker and go
    through the quote process, you must either accept the additional
    premium or if you don't, you are giving up your right to this
    coverage. If you were to ask about the autopilot after a claim, they
    would tell you that they offered to increase the value but you
    declined. Not only did you decline, you kept your policy with them
    and had the claim. If the a/c is totaled, they own that aircraft
    with the autopilot.

    Ray




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  9. #9

    Sundowner is down

    NOrris, that is the point I was making. I was replying to another
    post.

    Ray Seif

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "Norris" <beech@i...> wrote:
    > Ray! Not a good idea - The installation is entered in your log
    book. The
    > insurance Company will find out when you submit the claim . The
    first thing
    > the adjuster will request to see is your log books: engine,
    aircraft and
    > pilot log before thy start the investigation.
    > Norris BAC Insurance Director
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Ed Normandy" <thegeekynerd@h...>
    > To: <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>; "Ray" <skybound_supplies@y...>
    > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:52 PM
    > Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Sundowner is down
    >
    >
    > > I would recommend removing them before there are any photographs
    taken by
    > the insurance company.
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Ray
    > > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 PM
    > > Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Sundowner is down
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, friefly@a... wrote:
    > > > Yep, it appears recovering the cost of my recently installed
    > > avionics (Garmin 300xl, 76C Transponder, PS Engineering 7000B
    Audio
    > > Panel and 7043 Stereo) may prove to be an adventure. I hadn't
    > > gotten around to increasing the hull value.
    > > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: atpturner@e...
    > > > To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:37:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
    > > > Subject: [musketeermail] Sundowner is down
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Steve:
    > > >
    > > > Very sorry to hear about your Sundowner. You're right...at
    least
    > > no one was
    > > > hurt.
    > > >
    > > > Although it differs from one carrier to another, the general
    rule
    > > for "totaling"
    > > > an airplane is that if the repair cost plus the
    exisiting "salvage
    > > value" of the
    > > > airplane exceed the insured value of the aircraft, then the
    > > insurance company
    > > > writes you a check for the hull amount (less any deductible)
    and
    > > takes
    > > > possession of the salvage (for resale). This illustrates the
    > > hazard of
    > > > underinsuring the hull value, or not increasing insured
    value when
    > > you retrofit
    > > > with expensive avionics (which often survive a mishap to be
    part
    > > of the "salvage
    > > > value").
    > > >
    > > > The relatively high cost of parts for the relatively low-
    cost Aero
    > > Club-series
    > > > airplanes mean they are very likely to be totaled following a
    > > mishap also, even
    > > > if they are insured for a good approximation of their current
    > > value.
    > > >
    > > > In the final analysis, though, no one got hurt and you'll
    likely
    > > have some
    > > > insurance funds to look for a replacement.
    > > >
    > > > Again, sorry to hear about your partner's experience.
    > > >
    > > > Thomas P. Turner
    > > > Mastery Flight Training, Inc.
    > > > www.thomaspturner.com
    > > > ________________________________
    > > >
    > >
    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    > > ___
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    > > Musketeer series!
    > > >
    > > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    > >
    > > It depends on when the avionics were upgraded. Did you just
    renew
    > > your policy after the upgrades were completed (and chose not to
    > > increase the value at that time?). If you just installed the
    > > avionics (after your policy was renewed) and you had this
    mishap (a
    > > very short time after the installation), you might be able to
    talk
    > > to your insurance company to see if they will allow for the
    increase
    > > (some policies do, some don't).
    > >
    > > Ray Seif
    > > '73 Beech B19
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    > ----
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/
    > >
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    > > musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
    of
    > Service.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the
    Musketeer
    > series!
    > >
    > > www.beechaeroclub.org
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >




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