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Thread: Northeast Barnes Fly In A Success

  1. #1

    Northeast Barnes Fly In A Success

    Hello all,

    I just attended my first BAC Fly In and it was a great time. We had lots of
    planes show up with two folks coming from as far away as Toronto, Canada.
    How he get in the USA without a radio license, I will never know.....

    Tim Flight was going to fly down from Augusta, Maine and we were going to
    fly formation from Concord to Barnes. However, he broke his plane after
    take off and was late while getting another one. I do wish Tim would stop
    the barrel rolls over the field - after all, these are not F-16 Tim....

    The flight from Concord, NH was great. Upon takeoff at Concord I climbed to
    10,500 feet and flew over a solid cover of white clouds at 130 kts (nice
    tail wind) until it broke up about 10 miles before Barnes. Landed and had a
    great time. The best part of the Fly-In was being able to talk with
    everyone and see what they have done to fix the issues that I have with my
    plane. Everyone was great as was the very fashionably catered lunch. The
    Northeast Section of BAC does feed us well!

    Then it was a sprint to the flight line to get back up north before the
    weather closed in on us. Those of us that were flying to the northeast
    found weather on both the west and east of our flight path with just enough
    VFR between to get home. Tim Flight and I left the same time and flew the
    same course at 3,500 feet. We flew through and around rain and were bounced
    about by some moderate turbulence. Tim took off first and I was third after
    him. As I was just a bit faster, I was able to finally catch up to his
    souped up Sport. For about 20 miles we were freaking out the controllers by
    flying next to each other in formation. The controllers kept asking us of
    we saw the traffic that was less than a mile next to each of us. We would
    just confirm we had the traffic in sight and kept on flying. It was a fun
    sight to see him flying on my wing. (Or was I on his wing?)

    In any event, I got back to Concord safe and sound and I hope everyone else
    did too.

    A great time was had by all and many thanks to Steve for setting this up.

    Scott Flood
    N6146N




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  2. #2

    Northeast Barnes Fly In A Success

    I don't want to encourage anyone who has not had close formation flight training, to do it anyway. That is not just a casual disclaimer. Untrained formation flight has killed many pilots. Even TRAINED formation flight has killed a lot of pilots; I have watched four very experienced people die doing it (so far). That doesn't include the major fubars we have all seen on TV, at a few of the world's major airshows.

    Personally, I consider a half-mile separation to be a safe loose formation flight, as long as there is continuous cockpit communication and the trailing aircraft always has the lead in sight. You have to select an unused radio channel for air-to-air; normal A-T-A is often too congested. You need prior agreement on who will be Lead, and what the wide-separation plan will be if the Wingman loses sight of Lead. The separation plan has to ensure that you won't collide while looking for one another. Altitude separation is a key component. There are multiple ways to handle this. Attempts to re-form, when untrained, are the most dangerous aspect. I have personally seen two planes come within a couple of hundred feet of each other, attempting to re-form, with one of the pilots never seeing the other plane as it whipped by. A couple of hundred feet isn't very much, with a closing rate exceeding 300 knots. On the other hand, if you agree on a common altimeter setting via radio, and agree on each other's respective separation altitudes with 1,000' difference, and agree on a GPS position, heading, and groundspeed for a reform position, it can be safely accomplished. Once Wing has Lead in sight, the altitude can be matched back up.

    The way to handle this with ATC, both in the USA and in Canada, is to announce a "flight of two". Lead is responsible for NAV and ATC contact. The Flight will be named by ATC for the Lead, such as "Sierra Flight", or "Sierra Flight Of Two". Wing is supposed to turn their transponder to Standby, so that ATC doesn't have warnings going off all the time. Every Tower, Approach, and Center I have experienced has readily approved Flight Of Two operations, including takeoffs and landings. You matter-of-factly make the call, such as "SGJ Tower, Sierra 18767 Flight Of Two at Kilo with Romeo, ready to taxi for northbound VFR". They matter-of-factly clear you as requested. You line up on the runway, with the planned separation, when Lead+Flight is cleared to take the active. Ditto for calls to Approach or Tower when inbound.

    Loose formation means Wing starts rolling as Lead breaks ground; and Wing touches down as Lead readies to clear the active. Wide runways enable Lead to use the right side while Wing uses the left side. Narrow runways mandate a longer separation. This spacing enables Wing to handle arrival and departure maneuvering while keeping Lead in sight. Lead announces all turns in advance, as well as altitude call-outs. If you pre-plan slight turns to course during climb-out, it makes it easier for Wing to keep up with Lead (by turning slightly inside), and to keep Lead in sight (ahead and above). It is amazing how hard it can be to keep Lead in sight, until you have some experience. If the planes have unequal performance, the slower plane flies Lead. If they have equal performance, Lead climbs on slightly reduced power (again, pre-planned power settings). Lead NEVER maneuvers while looking for Wing; Lead flies the preplanned or announced course, as smoothly as possible. Two planes, with both trying to find one another, is a recipe for disaster.

    This is really nothing more than rapid ops, as is performed at nearly all major airshows to accommodate the arrivals and departures, rather than true formation flight. It still requires care and planning, to be safe. Closure rates can far exceed what we ever deal with in day-to-day life, with our reaction times found lacking. The preflight planning has to ensure that you cannot wind up in circumstances that could lead to a collision, no matter what happens (lost comm, weather, lost visual contact, etc.).

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Scott Flood
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:05 PM
    Subject: [musketeermail] Northeast Barnes Fly In A Success


    Hello all,

    I just attended my first BAC Fly In and it was a great time. We had lots of
    planes show up with two folks coming from as far away as Toronto, Canada.
    How he get in the USA without a radio license, I will never know.....

    Tim Flight was going to fly down from Augusta, Maine and we were going to
    fly formation from Concord to Barnes. However, he broke his plane after
    take off and was late while getting another one. I do wish Tim would stop
    the barrel rolls over the field - after all, these are not F-16 Tim....

    The flight from Concord, NH was great. Upon takeoff at Concord I climbed to
    10,500 feet and flew over a solid cover of white clouds at 130 kts (nice
    tail wind) until it broke up about 10 miles before Barnes. Landed and had a
    great time. The best part of the Fly-In was being able to talk with
    everyone and see what they have done to fix the issues that I have with my
    plane. Everyone was great as was the very fashionably catered lunch. The
    Northeast Section of BAC does feed us well!

    Then it was a sprint to the flight line to get back up north before the
    weather closed in on us. Those of us that were flying to the northeast
    found weather on both the west and east of our flight path with just enough
    VFR between to get home. Tim Flight and I left the same time and flew the
    same course at 3,500 feet. We flew through and around rain and were bounced
    about by some moderate turbulence. Tim took off first and I was third after
    him. As I was just a bit faster, I was able to finally catch up to his
    souped up Sport. For about 20 miles we were freaking out the controllers by
    flying next to each other in formation. The controllers kept asking us of
    we saw the traffic that was less than a mile next to each of us. We would
    just confirm we had the traffic in sight and kept on flying. It was a fun
    sight to see him flying on my wing. (Or was I on his wing?)

    In any event, I got back to Concord safe and sound and I hope everyone else
    did too.

    A great time was had by all and many thanks to Steve for setting this up.

    Scott Flood
    N6146N

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  3. #3

    Northeast Barnes Fly In A Success

    On Sun May 22 6:13 , "Joseph R Surowiec" sent:

    Wow. What a great event. My (our) first BAC fly-in event. What a way to spend a
    Saturday.

    Whoever arranged for our all of our planes to be washed and waxed while we were
    having lunch, it was much appreciated.


    ---

    Wow Joe! Sounds like you and the others had a great time.....

    Now BAC will have to issue the rest of us Rubber boots :-0


    Bill Howard
    BeechSportBill
    N1927W 1973 Sport 150
    ---- Msg sent via @bmi.net Mail v4 - http://www.bmi.net


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