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Thread: Amendment to the PT rules

  1. #1

    Amendment to the PT rules

    Currently, among other criteria, the President's Trophy rules require that a qualifing event must be posted on the BAC calendar for a minimum of fourteen (14) days prior to the event. Before we begin another spring and summer flying season, I was curious if there would be support for reducing the time to five (5) days?

    Here's why I am asking. Most of our members are VFR only and virtually everyone has scheduling difficulties from time to time. Since weather is the number one "fly-in killer," if we shortened the qualifing time the person hosting the event would be able to get a better idea of what the weather is likely to be on the planned event date. Even with five days there's a certain amount of weather prediction risk but trying to get a bead on the weather fourteen days (and usually more than that when the event is being planned) out seems to just cause the host a lot of work that then gets washed down the storm drains because the weather turns sour for the event.

    There's really no magic in the fourteen day notice requirement as originally concocted. In fact, it could be argued that it discourages members from hosting because of the unpredictablility of weather vis-a-vis the set up, the site commitements that may be involved, etc. causes members to think twice about trying to host something that far in advance.

    Anyway, just trying to get a feel for what you all might think.

    Chris L.

  2. #2
    I agree, and second the idea. However, post the event as soon as posiible as tenative event, and confirm asap no later than 5 days before as "official"..

    Just my 2 cents worth..

    M Spencer

  3. #3
    Good point Chris.

    Since this is almost entirely an E-group, with instant communications, it makes sense to me that as little as 48hrs notice should qualify, but a five day "tentative" booking is a good compromise.

    Mark Weiss

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JMSpencer
    Monty Spencer says: I agree, and second the idea. However, post the event as soon as posible as tenative event, and confirm asap no later than 5 days before as "official"..

    And Mark Weiss adds: Since this is almost entirely an E-group, with instant communications, it makes sense to me that as little as 48hrs notice should qualify, but a five day "tentative" booking is a good compromise.
    Both make great points. I'm sure part of the reason for "some kind of time period" of posting before the event was to stop abuse of the program. But I think fourteen days may be over-doing it a bit.

    I definitely agree fly-in's should be posted as soon as practical and possible and that a minimum needs to be established. Let's see if we hear more ideas about this.

    Chris

  5. #5
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth sjcote's Avatar
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    I think the 14 day term was set to give the host time to make arrangements. I can see situations where that amount of time would be needed. My experience has been that it is relatively easy to set one up...doesn't have to qualify for a Barnum & Bailey Circus. In fact the hardest thing sometimes is the RD trying get the banner to the site (assuming he/she is not going to be there). 'Course the answer is FedEx or such.

    Despite our dismal record for cancellations here in the Northeast, we have traditionally had good results in "Pop Up" events: "Next Saturday, Glens Falls. Be there, Aloha!". These currently do not qualify for PT points and, if there is no restaurant on site, means a scramble to buy burgers. Still, they have worked. Best one in recent times was Windham, CT (IJD). We had 9-10 planes there on quite short notice and Barry Burke and company had tents, grills, and beer(less) coolers. (It's the thought that counts.)

    I could live with a five day run-up. It's part of my job to help folks put them on anyway. Perhaps the best practice should be to coordinate the desire to host a fly-in with the RD a month out (to avoid conflicts), make initial plans (get the OK from the airport, FBO, line up potential activities), and then to announce it five days to a week before.

    I do like the idea of tentative bookings to let members plan. However we have to insure that the calendar isn't jammed with tentatives that are never really going to happen. That's a good way to generate apathy.


    Steve Cote
    BAC Founding Member
    Sundowner N-1958L

  6. #6
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth sjcote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjcote
    These currently do not qualify for PT points and, if there is no restaurant on site, means a scramble to buy burgers.
    Quoting myself...there's ego for ya!
    But I think I need to add, for the education of many members, that the Regional Directors have a (modest) budget for these events. You the BAC member and prospective host do not put out your own $'s for food and such. Talk to your RD about what is/is not allowed. (ie: Dancing Girls...I've argued that for some time to no avail.)


    Steve Cote
    BAC Founding Member
    Sundowner N-1958L

  7. #7
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth corcoran's Avatar
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    fly-in notice

    It is my understanding that to host a fly-in that becomes "an official BAC event", it must have the blessing of the Regional Director.

    That means he/she must be contacted and reply. Is that possible with only a five day window?

    And, only one member gets the President's Trophy each year. This was Cloyd's idea and is a good one. But it is only one member. 100LL at my airport is $5.15 a gallon and that limits a great deal of flying.

    Perhaps, one member with the most miles annually is too lofty a goal for most BACers. Maybe a "most events participated in" or "longest distance traveled for this event" may be within the grasp of every member.

    And no recognition for the host organizer should be rethought.

    Every trophy, from even the crappiest golf event, gets a place on my office wall. My black hat for being a BAC founder rates a special display.

    Involving more people in the accolades has a motivating effect.

    Tom Corcoran
    Boston

  8. #8

    Re: fly-in notice

    Quote Originally Posted by corcoran
    It is my understanding that to host a fly-in that becomes "an official BAC event", it must have the blessing of the Regional Director.

    That means he/she must be contacted and reply. Is that possible with only a five day window?
    The rules say: "The event must be coordinated with the appropriate BAC Regional Director." I guess that is open to interpretation. I think an email to the appropriate RD with the fly-in details is adequate. Plus, I think five days would be more than sufficient to get a reply from the RD, IF that is even necessary.

    I know what you mean about the impact of fuel costs on the fly-ins. I think the one trophy is good but additional points for longest trip to a fly-in and attending the most fly-ins has some merit, too.

    Good thougts, Tom! Anyone else out there got some input?

    Chris L.
    KSLC
    Sierra N5106M

  9. #9
    Orbiting Earth Orbiting Earth sjcote's Avatar
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    Re: fly-in notice

    Quote Originally Posted by corcoran
    That means he/she must be contacted and reply. Is that possible with only a five day window?
    That is why I think events should be sketched out ahead of time. If the organizers keep several days (OK, Saturdays or Sundays or holidays) in mind and peg it within the 5-7 days. (But I do think that most events will be announced longer in advance than 5 days, which should be a minimum.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinderman
    The rules say: "The event must be coordinated with the appropriate BAC Regional Director." I guess that is open to interpretation. I think an email to the appropriate RD with the fly-in details is adequate. Plus, I think five days would be more than sufficient to get a reply from the RD, IF that is even necessary.
    "Appropriate RD"? Well, OK, if someone wants to plan a fly-in in Northeast but goes to Gary...well let Gary fight off the rain gods. (He'll probably have better luck. )

    The job of the RD is to coordinate and assist in pulling an event off. I'm sure members could do it entirely themselves...but why go through the stress. Make me work! And the RD should also make sure that people don't stomp, inadvertantly, on other nearby events. Or that they don't shoot themselves in the foot by going up against some outside mega-event (like a major airshow a hundred miles away).


    Steve Cote
    BAC Founding Member
    Sundowner N-1958L

  10. #10
    As North Central Region Director I can GUARANTEE you that if any of my members wants to host a fly in, I will always support it to the best of my ability (including providing funds if necessary) Although I try and attend as many North Central Region's fly ins as possible, I can't make them all. We have one on the calendar for June (thanks Dan) and I hope more members step up and volunteer to host. I check my e-mail quite a few times a day so 5 months or 5 days is not going to be a problem as far as I'm concerned. A lot of the lead time will be determined by what all is going to take place. If it is concert with another event then dates are already set. If we want to get together to burn some burgers and dogs a shorter time frame is possible. What goes on will probably determine the length of time that can be given. I have seen fly ins where the weather is great at the location and great at my home airport but in between is a no go. I think we need to plan like the weather is going to be Clear and 10 all over the country and go from there.

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