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Thread: panel and interior

  1. #1
    Guest
    Guest

    panel and interior

    I just found this group and am glad to see some support for our not so common type. I purchased my 67 Sport 150 in May 08 and have loved it. Unfortunately, it seems to have been somewhat neglected. The seats are "rough" to say the least and now that I decided to start my instrument training my instruments are acting up.

    Does anyone have good used seats and/or working instruments such as a turn coordinator, airspeed indicator, altimeter. Mine are questionable. Also I need to add some kind of nav equip. If anyone has updated their panel to glass, I'm looking for working equip. that you may have pulled out of the panel. Something that will help qualify my airplane for the Instrument checkride. For instance, DME, RNAV, or maybe and old GPS. I could also add a nav/com with a CDI. If anyone has any of this and is willing to let go of it, please let me know.

    Also I wanted to ask what people have done to increase their climb rate. I knew I was sacrificing speed for comfort and that was fine, but I'd like to be able to hold at least 500 fpm climb with two adults on a standard day from a 3000 ft field with full fuel. At this point its more like 300-400. Imagine on a hot summer day...

    I've looked into the 160 hp conversion for the 0320-e2c, and the Power Flow Exhaust system. Does anyone have any experience with these options or know of other options to increase climb rate.

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

    Ben in Oregon
    N6906Q
    A23-19
    SN- MB-283

  2. #2
    Ben: Although I'm a Skipper driver, the BE-77 is also a dog in climb. After ruling out all other possibilities, I was left with the Skipper really does not like to climb. The least expensive option was to have the prop re-pitched. Now the Skipper climbs great with only a 8 knot cut in cruise. Like you, climb was more important that cruise. Prop shops are all over the place and re-pitching a fixed pitch is not a big expense.

    Joe
    Skipper, N6718R
    Boston, MA

  3. #3

    panel and interior

    >Does anyone working instruments such as a turn coordinator, airspeed indicator, altimeter. Mine are questionable.

    I've got all 3 out of an A23 (Continental powered Musketeer).

    >Also I need to add some kind of nav equip. I'm looking for working equip. that you may have pulled out of the panel.

    I've got a stack of KX-170Bs that all work fine. Some KI-201 indicators and a KI-214 indicator (with G/S), a KR-85 ADF, a Northstar Loran that I took out 2 weeks ago after making a coast to coast flight with it (worked fine, am going IFR GPS), and much more various Avionics, etc. Local avionics shop has some King KLN-90B IFR GPS available cheap.

    >Also I wanted to ask what people have done to increase their climb rate.

    The 2 proven choices:

    * De-pitch the prop (cheapest)
    * Increase compression ratio (not STC'd for the E2C, but it has been done with a field approval many times) which is most conveniently done at engine OH.

    An additional choice MAY be available:
    The rumored PF exhaust may also be an option, but there are so many exhaust systems on the Musketeer series, I don't know if they have or will get around to approving the exhaust system for all models. This is probably the most expensive mod, some $4000 plus installation.

    De-pitching the prop allows the engine to spin up faster on T/O and climb, but in theory decreases the cruise performance. I don't know what Beech engineers were smoking when they pitched the prop on the A23-19. The plane can not ever take advantage of the stock prop pitch in cruise. At 7500 feet Density Altitude, where wide open throttle and 2700 RPM equal 75% power, the plane would have to fly 145 mph INDICATED to be using the 58" prop pitch. Each inch of pitch is worth ~2.5 mph indicated airspeed at 2700 RPM. You could easily de-pitch the prop to 55 or 54 and gain much T/O and climb, and actually lose NO cruise speed. (54" x 2.5 mph =135 mph)

    Who has an A23-19 that will do 135 Indicated?

    >I knew I was sacrificing speed for comfort and that was fine, but I'd like to be able to hold at least 500 fpm climb with two adults on a standard day from a 3000 ft field with full fuel. At this point its more like 300-400. Imagine on a hot summer day...

    Yes, this is what will give you the climb you are seeking. At a cost of ~$150-$200. Another mod you may want to consider is the "Art Matson" tip mod. Your Sensenich 74DM6-58 prop can have 2.5" cut off the tips (1.25" off each tip) and the ends beveled to give a Hoerner wing tip profile. This allows the prop to spin faster with the same base pitch, and gives a nice
    climb improvement, without killing the cruise performance. Pictures are available for your prop shop to work with. No special approval is needed, as this is within the repair limits in the Sensenich prop data.

    >I've looked into the 160 hp conversion for the 0320-e2c,

    The basic change is to replace the pistons with Lycoming #75089, which is the piston used in the 160 HP version of the O-320. The only STC for this that I have experience with limits the max RPM to 2650 and still rates the engine as 150 HP. However, the T/O and Climb are dramatically improved.

    Bob Steward, A&P IA
    Birmingham, AL

  4. #4
    I have turn coordinator, a KI209 CDI, a
    KLN 35A GPS, and a complete ADF system that were just removed to do a Panel upgrade that wre working fine when removed from my C23 Sundowner

  5. #5
    Hi Ben;
    Congratulations on finding this group. It is a wealth of important information...tell your friends!

    For your seats, a good auto interior or household furniture shop can redo your seats with flame tested fabric, and redo the cushions for you. I did it and was glad I did. On that line, you might resist the temptation at this time to go whole hog with side panels, back seat, kick panels, and (gasp) headliner. That might be a task for another day, as it looks like you will be doing the instruments right away.
    Just get a couple of quotes from shops who have done it before and know what they are doing, and go for it. When I did it, winter was his slow time and I got a good price and quick turnaround.

    As for your rate of climb, I have owned and flown 2 different 150 Sports for 15 of the last 19 years, in various parts of the country. I gotta tell you I have only had full tanks on very few occassions. Single digits. 60 gallons is way too much for 150 HP in a substantially built airplane. I believe the wing was common to much of the fleet, so the guys with more HP have better ROC. I fly mine off 3000 foot of turf witrh trees at the ends, and on a hot Texas day with pax or fuel it is pressing it. Therefore I only put in about 40 gallons, using the tabs. That is still almost a good ammount of flight time on a nice VFR day with the engine leaned. When I do refuel and fly off pavement, I might pump more and burn it off and just plan on arriving at home base with 40 gallons remaining in the tanks. Since I am in a tin hanger, the wings tank caps and seals aren't exposed to real rain, but I sump the tanks before each flight, and after each refueling, IAW normal procedures. Also, not had a condensation problem. Your situation may be different, but flying with less fuel in the tank and planning on a shorter flight sure is a inexpensive option you might try. Remember all aircraft are compromises. Speed and ROC take a hit in these, but comfort and stability and visibility make up for it in my mind.

    Good luck with the improvements. Don't overdo it, but it looks lilke some members might just set you up with some reasonable equipment.

    Charlie Baumann
    Sport MB-729, N6578R
    Zuelh Field, (San Antonio) Texas

  6. #6
    Guest
    Guest

    panel and interior

    My 1983 Sundowner needed a new exhaust at the last annual, so I bit the bullet and replaced it with a Power Flow back in July. I think I was one of the very first.

    I think it added about 200 ft/min to my climb, and maybe about 3-5 kts to my full throttle cruise. It's hard to be sure exactly what gain I got, but I used to turn for the crosswind leg at 500 ft AGL opposite the same farmhouse on take off from runway 17 at McKinney (TKI). Now I turn before reaching it, or if I stay in the climb I'm between 700 and 800 ft AGL at the same spot, under similar atmospheric conditions.

    All anecdotal, as I do not have a way to do serious head to head testing and the conversions to a normalized condition. I certainly notice more ambient noise and a more sprightly acceleration on the runway.

    Paul.
    N6349C

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