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Thread: Vortex Generators for Musketeers

  1. #1

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    Folks:

    I just got the following e-mail from the Micro Vortex Generator Folks

    "Micro VG Kit for the Beech Musketeer is now FAA STC approved. The
    STC certification flights were conducted at our headquarters in
    Anacortes, Washington (just North of Seattle) and STC#SA0115SE
    covering all Musketeer models. VGs are full span on the wings, on
    both sides of the vertical stabilizer and on the bottom (BOTTOM) of
    the stabilator. You get reduced stall speed, reduced landing
    distance, much better crosswind control, smoother ride in turbulence
    and a more stable instrument platform."

    "You can see the VG catalog sheet at this address:

    http://www.microaero.com/CS_PDF/Beec...sketeer_CS.pdf

    I am in no way connected with thes folks, just passing on the info..








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  2. #2

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    Are you saying they would decrease the cruise speed, or just the fact
    that they lower the stall speed? I can't imagine many folks would
    spend $1,450 to make the plane cruise slower, even to lower the stall
    speed or shorten t/o and landing distance.

    Phil

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "gormair" <gormair@i...> wrote:
    > Wouldn't you know it? Somebody finally comes out with a mod for our
    > airplanes and it makes them go even slower.
    >
    > Still, I'd be interested in anything that can decrease my takeoff
    roll
    > and, in the event of forced off-airport landing it would be nice to
    > come in slower with less ground roll.
    >
    > I phoned the company today. Cost is $1,450 for the VGs. They claim
    > about 8 hours installation and say that they have a source who will
    > paint them to match your aircraft for about $100.
    >
    > I'll be reading with interest anyone who has these vortex generators
    > installed.
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote:
    > > Folks:
    > >
    > > I just got the following e-mail from the Micro Vortex Generator
    Folks
    > >
    > > "Micro VG Kit for the Beech Musketeer is now FAA STC approved.
    The
    > > STC certification flights were conducted at our headquarters in
    > > Anacortes, Washington (just North of Seattle) and STC#SA0115SE
    > > covering all Musketeer models. VGs are full span on the wings,
    on
    > > both sides of the vertical stabilizer and on the bottom (BOTTOM)
    of
    > > the stabilator. You get reduced stall speed, reduced landing
    > > distance, much better crosswind control, smoother ride in
    turbulence
    > > and a more stable instrument platform."
    > >
    > > "You can see the VG catalog sheet at this address:
    > >
    > > http://www.microaero.com/CS_PDF/Beec...sketeer_CS.pdf
    > >
    > > I am in no way connected with thes folks, just passing on the
    info..




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  3. #3

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    Hi Phil,

    I would think that they would have to reduce the cruise speed somewhat
    because they would certainly add more drag. Might not be a bad tradeoff
    since we are slow anyway and a 10 knot reduction in stall speed is certainly
    significant.

    John



    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of greilich2000
    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 6:29 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Vortex Generators for Musketeers



    Are you saying they would decrease the cruise speed, or just the fact
    that they lower the stall speed? I can't imagine many folks would
    spend $1,450 to make the plane cruise slower, even to lower the stall
    speed or shorten t/o and landing distance.

    Phil

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "gormair" <gormair@i...> wrote:
    > Wouldn't you know it? Somebody finally comes out with a mod for our
    > airplanes and it makes them go even slower.
    >
    > Still, I'd be interested in anything that can decrease my takeoff
    roll
    > and, in the event of forced off-airport landing it would be nice to
    > come in slower with less ground roll.
    >
    > I phoned the company today. Cost is $1,450 for the VGs. They claim
    > about 8 hours installation and say that they have a source who will
    > paint them to match your aircraft for about $100.
    >
    > I'll be reading with interest anyone who has these vortex generators
    > installed.
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote:
    > > Folks:
    > >
    > > I just got the following e-mail from the Micro Vortex Generator
    Folks
    > >
    > > "Micro VG Kit for the Beech Musketeer is now FAA STC approved.
    The
    > > STC certification flights were conducted at our headquarters in
    > > Anacortes, Washington (just North of Seattle) and STC#SA0115SE
    > > covering all Musketeer models. VGs are full span on the wings,
    on
    > > both sides of the vertical stabilizer and on the bottom (BOTTOM)
    of
    > > the stabilator. You get reduced stall speed, reduced landing
    > > distance, much better crosswind control, smoother ride in
    turbulence
    > > and a more stable instrument platform."
    > >
    > > "You can see the VG catalog sheet at this address:
    > >
    > > http://www.microaero.com/CS_PDF/Beec...sketeer_CS.pdf
    > >
    > > I am in no way connected with thes folks, just passing on the
    info..




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






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    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  4. #4

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    Hey Guys: I also wonder if these vortex devices cause the cruise speed to
    decrease. But it seems maybe they do not.
    So I looked a bit and found 2 web site articles discussing the micro vortex
    generators, one from NASA and one
    a Magazine product review at the addresses below. Peruse for yourself:

    1) http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/.../Micro-VG.html or
    PDF file:
    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...06-52-LaRC.pdf
    Excerpt: “The wind tunnel tests showed that Micro VGs dramatically enhanced
    performance on aircraft resulting in a 10% increase in lift, 50% decrease
    in drag, and a 100% increase in lift-to-drag ratio.”

    2) Feb 2005 Mag article----- http://www.americasflyways.com/feb05story.html
    It states: "*the additional lift generated far exceeds drag"
    "*reduces the stall speed by as much 8% without giving up cruise airspeed.
    In fact, some pilots say they even pick up a few knots at cruise."

    I think I'll pass for now, still seriously considering the Lycon Cylinder
    Port and Polish/valve job.
    Steve Bobby 6708N




    "John Waterman"
    <jwwaterman@comca
    st.net> To
    "'greilich2000'"
    Sent by: <PKRILEY@ALLEGHENYLUDLUM.COM>,
    musketeermail@yah <musketeermail@yahoogroups.com>
    oogroups.com cc

    Subject
    06/30/2005 09:37 RE: [musketeermail] Re: Vortex
    AM Generators for Musketeers










    Hi Phil,

    I would think that they would have to reduce the cruise speed somewhat
    because they would certainly add more drag. Might not be a bad tradeoff
    since we are slow anyway and a 10 knot reduction in stall speed is
    certainly
    significant.

    John



    -----Original Message-----
    From: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:musketeermail@yahoogroups.com]
    On Behalf Of greilich2000
    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 6:29 AM
    To: musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [musketeermail] Re: Vortex Generators for Musketeers



    Are you saying they would decrease the cruise speed, or just the fact
    that they lower the stall speed? I can't imagine many folks would
    spend $1,450 to make the plane cruise slower, even to lower the stall
    speed or shorten t/o and landing distance.

    Phil

    --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "gormair" <gormair@i...> wrote:
    > Wouldn't you know it? Somebody finally comes out with a mod for our
    > airplanes and it makes them go even slower.
    >
    > Still, I'd be interested in anything that can decrease my takeoff
    roll
    > and, in the event of forced off-airport landing it would be nice to
    > come in slower with less ground roll.
    >
    > I phoned the company today. Cost is $1,450 for the VGs. They claim
    > about 8 hours installation and say that they have a source who will
    > paint them to match your aircraft for about $100.
    >
    > I'll be reading with interest anyone who has these vortex generators
    > installed.
    >
    > --- In musketeermail@yahoogroups.com, "ajpcps" <ajpcps@y...> wrote:
    > > Folks:
    > >
    > > I just got the following e-mail from the Micro Vortex Generator
    Folks
    > >
    > > "Micro VG Kit for the Beech Musketeer is now FAA STC approved.
    The
    > > STC certification flights were conducted at our headquarters in
    > > Anacortes, Washington (just North of Seattle) and STC#SA0115SE
    > > covering all Musketeer models. VGs are full span on the wings,
    on
    > > both sides of the vertical stabilizer and on the bottom (BOTTOM)
    of
    > > the stabilator. You get reduced stall speed, reduced landing
    > > distance, much better crosswind control, smoother ride in
    turbulence
    > > and a more stable instrument platform."
    > >
    > > "You can see the VG catalog sheet at this address:
    > >
    > > http://www.microaero.com/CS_PDF/Beec...sketeer_CS.pdf
    > >
    > > I am in no way connected with thes folks, just passing on the
    info..




    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org






    _____

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    * Visit your group "musketeermail
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail> " on the web.


    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



    _____



    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer
    series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links








    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    musketeermail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

  5. #5

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    O. K. ---- All Musketeers
    There are some corrections that have to be made
    before any members write a check for Vortex Generators.



    1. It was said "Vortex Generators (VG's) can actually increase
    cruise speed.". This is incorrect. The reverse is true. This
    is a proven aerodanymic principle and there is no room
    for further discussion.

    2. It was said that "VG's impart energy to the air....". This is
    Thermodanymically impossible. The VG's don't have
    energy to impart to anything.

    3. HERE's HOW THE VG's WORK
    l

    l *
    Refer to the graph on the right (Lift vs. angle of attack).
    l + *
    Note the crosses indicating lift increase as the angle of
    l + + *
    of attack increases until the airfoil stalls (airflow separates)
    Lift l + +
    then the lift decreases rapidly. It was found that flow
    l +
    separation (stall) could be delayed by causing turbulence
    l+
    within the boundary layer (the air layer next to the top
    l______________________________
    of the airfoil). The VG's do just that, cause turbulence,
    angle of attack

    delay flow separation, and now the airfoil angle of
    attack can be increased a little further (see the *'s)
    before the airfoil stalls again. We now slow the plane
    down a to a lower stall speed and everything is wonderfull
    except for the slower cruise speed.
    Make sure you understand all this. $1500.00 can buy a
    lot of gas - take that back.
    Bill Passinos
    N2327L
    West Palm Beach, Fl



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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  6. #6

    Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    Opps !!!
    Let me try this again
    Bill Passinos


    --------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Bill Passinos <bpassinos@juno.com>
    To: b024700@yahoo.com
    Cc: steven.bobby@faa.gov,musketeermail@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:15:25 -0400
    Subject: Re: [musketeermail] Re: Vortex Generators for Musketeers

    O. K. ---- All Musketeers
    There are some corrections that have to be made
    before any members write a check for Vortex Generators.



    1. It was said "Vortex Generators (VG's) can actually increase
    cruise speed.". This is incorrect. The reverse is true. This
    is a proven aerodanymic principle and there is no room
    for further discussion.

    2. It was said that "VG's impart energy to the air....". This is
    Thermodanymically impossible. The VG's don't have
    energy to impart to anything.

    3. HERE's HOW THE VG's WORK
    l

    l *
    Refer to the graph on the right (Lift vs. angle of attack).
    l + *
    Note the crosses indicating lift increase as the angle of
    l + + *
    of attack increases until the airfoil stalls (airflow separates)
    Lift l + +
    then the lift decreases rapidly. It was found that flow
    l +
    separation (stall) could be delayed by causing turbulence
    l+
    within the boundary layer (the air layer next to the top
    l______________________________
    of the airfoil). The VG's do just that, cause turbulence,
    angle of attack

    delay flow separation, and now the airfoil angle of
    attack can be increased a little further (see the *'s)
    before the airfoil stalls again. We now slow the plane
    down a to a lower stall speed and everything is wonderfull
    except for the slower cruise speed.
    Make sure you understand all this. $1500.00 can buy a
    lot of gas - take that back.
    Bill Passinos
    N2327L
    West Palm Beach, Fl



    Join BAC today and be a part of the ONLY Type Club for the Musketeer series!

    www.beechaeroclub.org


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/musketeermail/

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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  7. #7

    Vortex Generators

    Hello:

    Does anyone have some numbers on the pressure drag or Parasitic Drag that is being added here??? From a basic review of vortex generators I can imagine Vortex Generators that if placed properly will be able to reduce Total Drag in specific configurations and speciically cruise.... On My B19 I can't see how much and in either direction it will be irrelevant. But none the less it could

    I will be installing these because if my 104 kts at 7500ft (2600 RPM) goes down to 102 kts in cruise it will make no difference to me but the climb out and landing will help at many small fields...

    and if I can climb to 7500 or 9500 quicker the wind will make up for the lost knot or two

    I am installing next week

    So i will soon be adding my own data

    I will post all data i find with mb-828

    thanks

    any other feedback would be great!

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