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Thread: Annuals

  1. #1

    Annuals

    From discussions I've had with various members there seems to be a big variation on what gets done during an annual. And not just on Mice.

    For example I'd like to hear people's experiences on these.

    I open all the inspection panels under the wings. I think that's pretty common.

    Does everyone pull wing tips on annuals?

    What about stab tips?

    There's a panel on the belly that has 60+ screws securing it. I've only pulled it once and that was to get to the pitot/static tubing. I don't think you see anything by pulling that that can't be seen pulling the seats and the floorboards. Do you open that panel.

    What about those two panel just ahead of the empenage. I usually pull one. I don't think you gain much by pulling the one on the other side.

    To pull the cowl on older planes like mine you have to pull the prop (I don't have the split cowl kit).

    I can change oil and see most of the engine without pullin the cowl. Does everyone else with an old Mouse and no split cowl pull the prop and cowl every annual?

    What about interior panels. I've never pulled any of those.

    Cloyd
    President, BAC

  2. #2
    jerry at tr4.tr2.com
    Guest

    Annuals

    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > >From discussions I've had with various members there seems to be a big
    > variation on what gets done during an annual. And not just on Mice.
    >
    > For example I'd like to hear people's experiences on these.
    >
    > I open all the inspection panels under the wings. I think that's pretty
    > common.
    *** Me too.

    >
    > Does everyone pull wing tips on annuals?
    >
    *** Nope.

    > What about stab tips?
    *** No.

    >
    > There's a panel on the belly that has 60+ screws securing it. I've only
    > pulled it once and that was to get to the pitot/static tubing. I don't
    > think you see anything by pulling that that can't be seen pulling the
    > seats and the floorboards. Do you open that panel.
    >
    *** I pulled it once too. Never again, unless there's something specific
    I need to get to in there.

    > What about those two panel just ahead of the empenage. I usually pull
    > one. I don't think you gain much by pulling the one on the other side.
    >
    *** Ditto.

    >
    > What about interior panels. I've never pulled any of those.
    >
    *** You should do it once, to check for corrosion. The fresh air ducting
    frays, and can really do a number on the interior skeleton. To check for this,
    pull the window surrounds and wall coverings aft of the doors.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )
    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  3. #3

    Annuals

    See there, you must have one of those new fangled Mice.

    There ain't no fresh air ducting on my '63. Just a flap on the outside that opens up to a nozzel inside.

    Life was simpler in '63.

    Cloyd



    Jerome Kaidor <jerry@tr4.tr2.com>
    07/15/2005 10:06 AM To
    cloydvanhook@imtt.com cc
    bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org Subject
    Re: [BAC-Mail] Annuals




    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > >From discussions I've had with various members there seems to be a big
    > variation on what gets done during an annual. And not just on Mice.
    >
    > For example I'd like to hear people's experiences on these.
    >
    > I open all the inspection panels under the wings. I think that's pretty
    > common.
    *** Me too.

    >
    > Does everyone pull wing tips on annuals?
    >
    *** Nope.

    > What about stab tips?
    *** No.

    >
    > There's a panel on the belly that has 60+ screws securing it. I've only
    > pulled it once and that was to get to the pitot/static tubing. I don't
    > think you see anything by pulling that that can't be seen pulling the
    > seats and the floorboards. Do you open that panel.
    >
    *** I pulled it once too. Never again, unless there's something specific
    I need to get to in there.

    > What about those two panel just ahead of the empenage. I usually pull
    > one. I don't think you gain much by pulling the one on the other side.
    >
    *** Ditto.

    >
    > What about interior panels. I've never pulled any of those.
    >
    *** You should do it once, to check for corrosion. The fresh air ducting
    frays, and can really do a number on the interior skeleton. To check for this,
    pull the window surrounds and wall coverings aft of the doors.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )

  4. #4

    Annuals

    Mike,

    BAC Mail bounced my last question because, like me, the message had gotten too fat with all the thread attached.

    My next question is:

    My plane was treated with ACF-50 about three years ago (before I bought it).

    How often should ACF-50 or other corrosion treatment be repeated?

    Cloyd
    President, BAC

  5. #5
    jerry at tr4.tr2.com
    Guest

    Annuals

    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > How often should ACF-50 or other corrosion treatment be repeated?
    >
    *** Not sure. Every three years seems reasonable to me. In a recent
    issue of Light Plane Maintenance, it was mentioned that the anti-corrosion
    treatments can have a bad effect on autopilot servos. The stuff creeps
    into the servo, makes the commutator greasy, and burns out the brushes.

    They recommended taking the servo out before doing the treatment, then
    reinstalling. Or at least, masking it off with plastic. On my '76 C23,
    the servo for the wing-leveler is between the seats, under the panel
    behind the johnson bar.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )
    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  6. #6

    Annuals

    A previous post in musketeermail (from a year or 2
    ago) said that it was probably good to retreat
    whenever it finally quit dripping all over the tiedown
    area...

    Jay

    --- cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:

    > Mike,
    >
    > BAC Mail bounced my last question because, like me,
    > the message had gotten
    > too fat with all the thread attached.
    >
    > My next question is:
    >
    > My plane was treated with ACF-50 about three years
    > ago (before I bought
    > it).
    >
    > How often should ACF-50 or other corrosion treatment
    > be repeated?
    >
    > Cloyd
    > President, BAC>
    _______________________________________________
    > BAC-Mail mailing list
    > BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    >
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail
    >


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  7. #7

    Annuals

    UH, autopilot servos is not a problem on Minnie.



    Jerome Kaidor <jerry@tr4.tr2.com>
    07/15/2005 12:08 PM To
    cloydvanhook@imtt.com cc
    bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org Subject
    Re: [BAC-Mail] Annuals




    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > How often should ACF-50 or other corrosion treatment be repeated?
    >
    *** Not sure. Every three years seems reasonable to me. In a recent
    issue of Light Plane Maintenance, it was mentioned that the anti-corrosion
    treatments can have a bad effect on autopilot servos. The stuff creeps
    into the servo, makes the commutator greasy, and burns out the brushes.

    They recommended taking the servo out before doing the treatment, then
    reinstalling. Or at least, masking it off with plastic. On my '76 C23,
    the servo for the wing-leveler is between the seats, under the panel
    behind the johnson bar.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )

  8. #8
    jerry at tr4.tr2.com
    Guest

    Annuals

    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > UH, autopilot servos is not a problem on Minnie.
    >
    *** Probably a good thing. That servo looks like it'll be a bitch to get
    out. And the wing-leveler is a joke. Since it does not control the rudder,
    you fly through the sky tilted unless you push appropriate ( usually right )
    rudder.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )
    _______________________________________________
    BAC-Mail mailing list
    BAC-Mail@beechaeroclub.org
    http://www.beechaeroclub.org/mailman/listinfo/bac-mail

  9. #9

    Annuals

    Sounds like a rigging problem.



    Jerome Kaidor <jerry@tr4.tr2.com>
    07/15/2005 12:25 PM To
    cloydvanhook@imtt.com cc
    jerry@tr4.tr2.com (Jerome Kaidor), bac-mail@beechaeroclub.org Subject
    Re: [BAC-Mail] Annuals




    cloydvanhook@imtt.com wrote:
    >
    > UH, autopilot servos is not a problem on Minnie.
    >
    *** Probably a good thing. That servo looks like it'll be a bitch to get
    out. And the wing-leveler is a joke. Since it does not control the rudder,
    you fly through the sky tilted unless you push appropriate ( usually right )
    rudder.

    - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com )

  10. #10

    Annuals

    Comments embedded in text.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: cloydvanhook@imtt.com (cloydvanhook@imtt.com)
    Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:59 AM
    Annual Inspections

    From discussions I've had with various members there seems to be a big variation on what gets done during an Annual. And not just on Mice.
    [b]True beyond belief.

    For example I'd like to hear people's experiences on these.

    I open all the inspection panels under the wings. I think that's pretty common.
    [b]I remove every exterior access panel, either for a generallook-see or for access to something else. If you don't, you are gambling that a spot of corrosion won't pick that area to begin; even if it is just under the edge of the panel itself. It gives you access to squirt in some ACF 50 or Corrosion X; it also ensures that you know the status of all the hardware. I have found sheetmetal screws forced into machine screw clip-nuts, screws glued into stripped holes, etc. On every plane I have first worked on, I have found panels that appeared to have never been removed at all; sometimes with very unfortunate findings.

    Does everyone pull wing tips on annuals?
    [b]Yes on every "first Annual"; every other year on known planes that have been treated with corrosion prevention compound. Otherwise every year.

    What about stab tips?
    [b]Yes on every "first Annual"; every other year on known planes that have been treated with corrosion prevention compound. Otherwise every year.

    There's a panel on the belly that has 60+ screws securing it. I've only pulled it once and that was to get to the pitot/static tubing. I don't think you see anything by pullingit,that can't be seen by pulling the seats and the floorboards. Do you open that panel.
    [b]Yes, on every annual. Unless the oldest planes are very different, there is no other way to examine the bottom of the spar splice structure and fasteners, as well as the panel and its fasteners. This includes corrosion inspection and drain hole status inspection. There is often a lot of crud in this area that will hold water. This is often a low point for the pitot-static line, and you can check it for standing water inside the tubing. On the later-model planes with air ducts, if you don't pull the bottom panel every year, you won't find the corrosion from the air ducts in time to save the center carry-through. On some planes you need to pull this panel to drain out all the oil....

    What about those two panel just ahead of the empennage. I usually pull one. I don't think you gain much by pulling the one on the other side.
    [b]If you don't pull both sides, you cannot properly inspect both sides of the fuselage and vertical empennage attach structure, for fastener integrity and corrosion.

    To pull the cowl on older planes like mine you have to pull the prop (I don't have the split cowl kit). I can change oil and see most of the engine without pulling the cowl. Does everyone else with an old Mouse and no split cowl pull the prop and cowl every annual?
    [b]If you don't pull the cowl, you cannot properly inspect the entire engine and engine compartment.

    What about interior panels. I've never pulled any of those.
    [b]You may be in for a very nasty surprise, if you have ever seen any signs of moisture inside the plane; especially if it is tied down outside in a humid area. They must be pulled on every "first Annual"; every other year on known planes that have been treated with corrosion prevention compound. If the original fiberglass junk has been removed (it traps moisture), and the sidewalls/window framestreated with Corrosion X and LPS-3 (or Boeshield T9), you can probably go three years. Otherwise every year. Anyone buying a plane should havethe floorboards and side panels pulled as part of the pre-purchase. You can usually see enough above the headliner, using a mirror and light from the overhead console opening, to avoid pulling it completely. Corrosion, rather than mechanicals, is the big "economic killer" on our planes. The only way to cost-effectively deal with it is preventive treatments and early detection.

    [b]A lot of this is simple "grunt work". You can keep the labor cost down by doing owner-assisted Annuals. My personal opinion on another aspect follows; you may wish to get your A&P-IA's opinion before you proceed with it.
    [b]
    [b]Every year, planes get damaged just by the act of performing Annual Inspections. There have been efforts to get these inspections more closely tied to usage; much like the "Periodic Inspections" or "Phase Inspections" used by the military and airlines. The FAA has been pretty resistant to these efforts, with respect to Part 91 low-usage planes, because of weathering effects and corrosion. In other words, lack of use and neglect are oftenharder on a light plane than flying it.
    [b]
    [b]On the other hand, a lot of stuff can get torn up by removing and replacing the hundreds of screws every year, if they are in too-tight self-locking anchor nuts. A lot of factors can cause excessively tight fasteners.Loss of the original thread coating in the anchor nut is a factor, as is the reuse of screws with burred threads. Slight (or significant) corrosion plays a role. I have even found instances where new anchor nuts were far too tight.
    [b]
    [b]You can solve this problem by purchasing a Craftsman hand tap from Sears. The tap sizes you need with it are 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32. It comes with a 10-24, so you need to buy the 10-32 as an add-on. A size 4-40 will also come in handy at times. Using this hand tap, you can clean out the threads in all the anchor nuts. It takes a bit of experience to relieve them just enough to free up the threads a bit, while still leaving enough "bind" to keep the screws from falling out should one be left too loose. While the first pass of this effort will take a while, from then on you can readily remove and replace all those screws with much less effort and little risk of airframe, panel, or paint damage. If you repair any damaged or missing fasteners and anchor nutsduring the "first pass", and you start using a tiny squirt of LPS-2 in all threads, you will find that your Philips-head screws no longer get stuck, or reamed out during R&R. I normally use a 7.2V or 9.6V hand drill-screwdriver; not the T-handle type, but the kind with the shaped heel at the back so you can nestle your hand straight in line with the bit. A high-power, T-handle screw-drill is out of place around an airplane. Youcan set the clutch for installation if desired (if so equipped), but you will quickly learn to let the screws run down and seat just by releasing the trigger at the right time (so the drill can coast down). If youprefer, you can leave them slightly loose, and do final tightening by hand. I prefer to use the "coast to a stop" as the screw seats, as that way I am less likely to miss tightening everything.

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